"farmhouse"/loire valley-esque kombucha?

[timeforest]

hi all - im new here. weird thread title i know. basically heres my question:
-i used to brew kombucha a lot, got out of it and started homebrewing and drinking too much beer. quit beer/drinking alcohol and am back to brewing kombucha (so i have a bit of homebrewing experience)
-a friend of mine has tasked me with (hopefully) making what will be a rotating draft kombucha at his wine/craft beer bar. we want something that is minerally/tart/dry/stone fruit-y/champagny with maybe the sour/vinegar note taking a bit of a back seat. the key here is not sweet, tart, delicate, dry, i suppose.

so im thinking maybe try some lactobacillus and champagne yeast along with a scoby? would these be added to a primary or secondary?
-has anyone had any like with mixed/"house" culturing kombucha?
-anyone used champagne yeast?
-anyone got a recipe recommendation or general tips to try to make this work?

ill probably post a bunch here now as im assimilating as much info as i can...

thanks in advance

 

[RPh_Guy]

something that is minerally/tart/dry/stone fruit-y/champagny with maybe the sour/vinegar note taking a bit of a back seat

Please forgive my ignorance, but how is this different than "normal" kombucha?

 

[timeforest]

Please forgive my ignorance, but how is this different than "normal" kombucha?

i guess my response would be to ask if all kombucha tastes the same to you and what “normal kombucha” means

i’m asking for insights regarding how best to achieve a specific taste profile, mouthfeel, finish - so what base teas, fruit additions, cultures, techniques will help me to this end.

 

[Andrew Hodgson]

I have been making kombucha for several months now using only primary fermentation and various teas. I have used cheap tea, black and white, and really good tea as well. In my experience it does not vary too much by taste (i ferment for essentially however long it takes to drink the previous batch 1-2 weeks). So my guess is to really affect flavor the variables you need to test and control are:

Fermentation time (perceived sour-ness)
SCOBY make-up itself (I have heard that SCOBYs vary in bacterial makeup and this changes the falvors they create, although maybe very subtle).

Secondary fermentation.

As I mentioned I don't secondary as me and my lady like real vinegary, strong, raw kombucha. I would imagine regardless of the above variables secondary is the time you get to really add flavor. I do not know how one would affect mouthfeel or other variables with kombucha but I would say you will have to consult with someone that makes really professional, polished kombucha, as in my opninion most home kombucha brewers likely use 1 or 2 SCOBY variations and essentially only control fermentation factors and flavors. The draw to kombucha for me is the simplicity so I would say find someone who has been doing it for years and pick their brain as to me I would guess the answers to some of your questions are pretty sophisticated compared to those of us who steep tea add sugar and throw the blob on in there.

 

[RPh_Guy]

I don't drink kombucha because I don't like tea. I assume it tastes like unsweetened tea with a little contribution from the yeast and bacteria: herbal, tannic, lightly fruity, and lightly tart and/or acetic.
I do however understand the science, more or less.

For a dry "minerally" taste, you want to control the water profile. Perhaps moderate sodium, high calcium, high sulfate, moderate chloride, moderate to high bicarbonate.

To increase tartness and yeast esters, a higher fermentation temperature can help. Consider using additional buffer like potassium carbonate to increase tartness if the sodium bicarbonate from building the water profile isn't enough.
L. plantarum is a great strain for increasing the lactic production and you can certainly add it, however the SCOBY does already contain Lactic Acid Bacteria.

Champagne yeast doesn't make things taste like champagne; that comes from the very high carbonation, dryness, light tannins, and lightly fruity wine grapes.
You can add oak or tannin powder for more of a wine-like flavor profile.
Increase the alcohol for more dryness.

For the stone fruit, I'd suggest experimenting with some strains of Sacc or Brett known to produce stone fruit esters. Pay attention to the temperature tolerance.
I think Wyeast B. lambicus produces some great cherry flavor and aroma, if that's what you want.
Some Belgian Sacc strains may give more plum and stone fruit notes, generally at the lower end of their temperature range I believe.

 

[timeforest]

thank you both! that is super useful info

 

[Scientific hippie]

I don't drink kombucha because I don't like tea. I assume it tastes like unsweetened tea with a little contribution from the yeast and bacteria: herbal, tannic, lightly fruity, and lightly tart and/or acetic.

Gee, I find it takes a lot of effort to retain any of the tea flavor; I make the tea at maximum strength, steep it for 15 min, and use a predominantly black tea mixture. If you don't like tea, I think making it medium strength would help you avoid the tea flavor and just get the fruity/tart/acetic notes.