Failed carbonation

[Jaustink83]

This is my first home brew attempt, it is an extract recipe.

So I made this extraction recipe: Bcs clone extract

I made a few posts here during the process and got everything to work fine. Untill now.

I added 4 oz of corn sugar (used an online calc for imperial stout to get the 4oz) to some water, boiled, cooled, and added to my bottling bucket. Racked the beer to the bucket and bottled. It's been almost 4 weeks since I bottled.

I have opened 4 bottles do far, 1 each week. I get a tiny "pssst" and no head. It's sweet with a bitter ending but not astringent. I know this is a big beer so I plan to let most of the bottles sit for a few months but they are just too bitter and not carbonating as expected.

2 questions...

Did the high abv potentially cause all the yeast to die off so there was nothing left to carbonate in the bottles?

Is 2 oz of millennial hops expected to make a conciderably bitter beer? If I make it again how do I make it less bitter? Do I add less millennial hops or do I just add the full 2 oz later instead of @ 60 and 45?


I know now this was a stupid recipe to do my first homebrew but I just want to better understand why they didn't carbonate properly.

 

[Beernik]

The link doesn’t appear to say what yeast was used, however 13% is above most yeast’s alcohol tolerance.

In my experience, when bottling, anything over 8% takes extra time to carbonate. A 13% beer may never fully bottle carbonate. I had that happen to me with an 11% beer.

 

[Jaustink83]

I used 2 packets of Safale us-05 yeast.

 

[IslandLizard]

US-05 Alcohol tolerance: 9-11%
https://fermentis.com/en/product/safale-us-05/
If you hit your numbers, you may have 13-14% alcohol in there.
Now since you heard a little pssst, there's hope. Give it another month or 2 in the low to mid 60s. Big beers like that need conditioning anyway, so all should come along nicely that way. Beers like that are usually not consumed until at least a year old. 2-3 years or older is even better.

 

[Miraculix]

And if everything goes tits up and no carbonation after 3 months or so, add a few crumbles of cbc1 into each bottle and immediately recap them. This will carbonate it if there are simple sugars left.

 

[hotbeer]

Also, how much head space is in your bottles? When I fill mine almost to the very top, I don't get much of any audible "pfft". However they are very carbonated stay carbonated after opening even if you are a slow drinker.

If you aren't seeing bubbles when poured, then that's an issue. But if it's just that the beer isn't keeping a head on it, that might be something else entirely.

 

[Jaustink83]

Here is one bottle to show headspace.

I get no head at all while pouring, even if I pour it hard.

 

[Golddiggie]

You sure you're crimping the bottles properly?? That issue is one of the reasons I never got into using the crimp cap bottles.

 

[Jaustink83]

As sure as I can be for a first time brewer. I can't pry the caps off with my fingers at all. They feel secure. It takes a good pry with a bottle opener to get them off. The opening feels similar to opening a commercially capped bottle.

 

[hotbeer]

I'm thinking the bottle doesn't look crimped well enough. The edges of the crimp should be a tad more vertical than those crimps look.

Do you have the right size capper? There are caps and bottles that are just slightly bigger than most normal size beer bottles. With a bigger capper die to boot.

Also, how well did you ensure the priming solution was mixed with the beer racked onto it. You might yet find some perfectly carb'd and others over carb'd.

 

[Jaustink83]

I have no idea about the sizes. The caps and capper came in a kit but the bottles are my collected commercial empties and vary across multiple brands (goose island, new belgium, Founder's).

I think it was mixed well. I made the mistake of not initially mixing my wort and topoff water well in the start, I fixed it, but made a point to ensure good mixing from that point on.

I made the priming solution, poured it in the bottom of my bottling bucket, racked my beer on top of it with an autosyphon, then used the giant metal spoon (sanitized) that came with the kit to gently swirl and stir everything together before bottling.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

High ABV beers can be a struggle to carbonate or can take a very long time. It won't help with this case, but I have started adding some CBC-1 yeast when I bottle my high ABV beers. It has worked very well for me for the two batches I used it for. There are some other champagne yeasts that are supposed to be good for bottle conditioning as well.

As far as your bottles, I would keep them in a warm place (75F) and try one in another month. I have not figured out if inverting the bottles to mix the yeast into the beer helps, but I usually do that once in a while as well.

 

[Jaustink83]

Yeah I will try to hold out hope a while longer.

I read that about the Champaign yeast too but I also read that it could really make for a dry finnish similar to a dry wine. That made me hesitant to try it.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

I read that about the Champaign yeast too but I also read that it could really make for a dry finnish similar to a dry wine. That made me hesitant to try it.

There is a misconception about yeasts like those used for champagne and wine. Most of them can only ferment the very simple sugars. These are abundant in fruit based beverages, but the sugars found in beer are often more complex sugars that only yeast made for beer can ferment. A Champaign yeast will make a very dry wine because it is all simple sugars, but the same yeast would likely leave a very sweet beer because of all the more complex sugars that are left behind.

On the other hand, when you are bottling conditioning, you only add simple sugars. In this case, you want a yeast that will only consume the simple sugars you added for carbonation and you want a yeast that can tolerate high levels of alcohol. This is where a yeast like CBC-1 or a Champaign yeast shines. (CBC-1 is probably a Champaign or wine strain.)

 

[Beermeister32]

I have not figured out if inverting the bottles to mix the yeast into the beer helps,

I read somewhere that you shouldn’t agitate the bottles. Yeast should scavenge the O2 eventually, they will find the O2 in the bottle. You don’t want to mix O2 into the partially carbonating beer though. Better to just let them sit and do their thing.

 

[odie]

without knowing OG and FG we really can't help ya....what is your ABV? hard to say if the yeast has anything left to give.

If ya can't offer those numbers I have very little to offer in return. We are just grasping at straws.

 

[Jaustink83]

without knowing OG and FG we really can't help ya....what is your ABV? hard to say if the yeast has anything left to give.

If ya can't offer those numbers I have very little to offer in return. We are just grasping at straws.

OG 1.12
FG 1.034
ABV 11.29%

 

[odie]

US-05 probably still has a "little" to give ya...that's why you're getting a little "pssst"

Pulling my "Maple Monster" RIS notes...….I use only a single US-05 pack. But I do add 2# maple syrup at kegging so I have to extrapolate some PPG numbers and guesstimate the affects on OG and ABV. Supposedly a couple pounds of maple or honey should give you a 3% ABV bump.

RIS #1: OG 1.108 to FG 1.026. plus 2# maple in between OG and FG should put me around 13.75% if my math is good...well questionable...lol

RIS#2: OG 1.116 to FG 1.038. plus 2# maple should be 13.22% I do have 1# lactose in this one.

RIS#3: OG 1.114 (10% reduction in previous grain bills due to process improvements) to FG ?????? not tested yet. But has no lactose and similar OG to previous? Yeah for process efficiency improvements.

You are close to the limits I've experienced with 05. Not much yeast left to carb up but then again, RIS is not a heavy carbed beer. But I keg on nitro so my end result is a little different.

 

[hotbeer]

I'm guessing you probably got a capper like this in the kit.

My disclaimer first: I've never used one so I really don't know!

However I'm sure that they come in all sorts of some are good and some are too flexible to properly get enough forces to properly cap a bottle.

I felt that way since the day I first saw one. So I got a cheap bench capper like this....

When I cap a bottle it initially goes so far and feels like it crimped and leaves the edges of the crimp angling outward like your picture. However pulling down on the lever a little harder, you feel the spring pressure being over come and the die goes further down on the cap and you get not quite but more vertical looking crimp edges on the bottle cap.

Your capper might do that too, but with it's design it might take more strength. And if it's one of the cheaper flimsy models, you might not get there at all.


But as another said, maybe you need to raise the temp you are keeping them at. I usually try to keep mine at or above 74°F for two weeks after bottling. Now that winter is getting closer, I'm going to need to think about what I can do to keep that temp.

 

[Bobby_M]

I remember when I took my driving test in a Lambo.

The reason why beers over 10% benefit from some Champagne yeast is that it's more alcohol tolerant than the original yeast you used. By now that yeast is tired and poisoned and the cell count is pretty low. Warm up the bottles to about 75F for another week then put them in the basement for another month.

 

[Jaustink83]

This is all great info. Thank you everyone. I was originally worried I wouldn't have yeast left to carbonate but many ppl said they let similar brews sit in secondary for 6+ months and it still carbonates without any additional yeast additions. I figured if their yeast could last 6 months in that environment I should be fine. I guess not. I will definitely do cbc1/champ yeast next time.

I will still let this one sit for a month or two and see what happens. It's drinkable as-is. A bit sweet initially with a bitter after taste but I have noticed the bitterness seems to be slowly improving. For a first attempt I'm a bit let down but I enjoyed the process and see a lot of things I can do better/differently next time.

 

[odie]

The yeast doesn't have much let to give. But what little that may still be there will take some time to carb. It ain't a 4% beer that will carb up in a few days.

 

[hotbeer]

I am curious what your ambient temps were for the beer during the two weeks after you bottled it. I haven't noticed that you said.

US-05 yeast originally for the ferment wasn't it?

 

[Jaustink83]

Yes us-05. After bottling they went into cases to keep out the sun and we're stored on the main floor without any temp control. Chicago weather, haven't been using the ac or heater.

This is the info from the last 2 weeks. Of course it doesn't hit the extremes inside the house. 65-75 maybe, I'm guessing.

 

[hotbeer]

Keep it on a high shelf and you might get another degree or two warmer. Though with outdoor temps cooling off, that might change depending on how well your attic is insulated.