Extract Suppliers

[imp81318]

I am a new extract brewer and my last 2 batches have stalled around 1.020 FG. The first was a Brewer's Best Belgian Triple kit and the second was an Irish stout recipe that I developed using Beer Smith 2.0. I am thinking that perhaps my LHBS isn't moving enough liquid extract and that's causing the problems.

For those of you that have not had problems with FG stalling at 1.020, where do you buy your extract?

 

[ncbrewer]

It's not uncommon for extract beer to finish at around 1.020. And for the triple, that might not be bad attenuation anyway. If you're worried about it, you could try some extract from one of the big on-line suppliers and see how it compares, but remember to compare attenuation - not just FG.

Other factors could also be involved - yeast health when pitching, pitching rate, pitching temperature, fermentation temperature, yeast rehydration if using dry yeast, etc.

Good luck.

 

[imp81318]

I know that is seems,to be fairly common for extract batches to finish around 1.020, but there are also people that report their extracts always (or at least typically) finish below that mark.

 

[flars]

In the last couple of decades, it is not common for extract brews to finish at 1.020. Quality of LME used to be a problem, but it isn't any more. You might get some bad extract from a store dispensing from a drum if their turnover for each drum exceeds about three to four months.
Bad extract will not smell or taste good. If you wouldn't drizzle some of the extract over ice cream, don't use it for your beer.
I feel most of the problems with an extract brew finishing at 1.020 or higher is the yeast handling. An old 5 to 7 gram packet of yeast just will not do it. An 11 gram packet of yeast should always be rehydrated before pitching to take advantage of all the properties built into the yeast.

 

[ericbw]

Never had a problem with Briess. Is that what you're asking? Or where to buy it?

 

[aopisa]

Or you could use DME which has a longer shelf life.

 

[imp81318]

In the last couple of decades, it is not common for extract brews to finish at 1.020. Quality of LME used to be a problem, but it isn't any more. You might get some bad extract from a store dispensing from a drum if their turnover for each drum exceeds about three to four months.
Bad extract will not smell or taste good. If you wouldn't drizzle some of the extract over ice cream, don't use it for your beer.
I feel most of the problems with an extract brew finishing at 1.020 or higher is the yeast handling. An old 5 to 7 gram packet of yeast just will not do it. An 11 gram packet of yeast should always be rehydrated before pitching to take advantage of all the properties built into the yeast.

Thanks flars. With the first problem batch I definitely didn't handle the yeast properly, but this last time I used liquid yeast and made a starter so unless the LHBS mishandled it prior to my purchasing it, I doubt that was an issue but I will certainly be more mindful in the future... if you don't mind me asking, why does mishandled yeast consistently result in FG around 1.020 in extract brews? Knowing little about the process and chemistry involved, I would think the resulting FG would be highly variable if yeast was the culprit...

 

[imp81318]

Or you could use DME which has a longer shelf life.

I've seen this before, but my LHBS says that they only carry LME in bulk because the DME is too hard to store because it just turns into a giant brick due to the humidity here in PA.

 

[ericbw]

I've seen this before, but my LHBS says that they only carry LME in bulk because the DME is too hard to store because it just turns into a giant brick due to the humidity here in PA.

Do they sell cans of LME? They might be fresher. But I don't know that extract finished at 1.020 routinely. What yeast are you using!

 

[imp81318]

Do they sell cans of LME? They might be fresher. But I don't know that extract finished at 1.020 routinely. What yeast are you using!

White Labs WLP004 Irish Ale yeast for my stout. The Triple used whatever dry yeast packet came with the kit which I don't remember what it was now. As I said, I did make a starter about 3 days ahead of time for the stout. And in both cases fermentation started in less that 24 hours (the stout started to show early signs on the surface of the wort within 6 hours).

 

[ericbw]

White Labs WLP004 Irish Ale yeast for my stout. The Triple used whatever dry yeast packet came with the kit which I don't remember what it was now. As I said, I did make a starter about 3 days ahead of time for the stout. And in both cases fermentation started in less that 24 hours (the stout started to show early signs on the surface of the wort within 6 hours).

I think you're right - your source might not have the best extract. You might order some online and see how it does. I have only used Briess LME and DME, not other brands. But that would give you an idea of if it is the LME.

You'll probably end up paying more, unfortunately. Unless the store has cans of extract, not just a bulk barrel.

 

[flars]

White Labs WLP004 Irish Ale yeast for my stout. The Triple used whatever dry yeast packet came with the kit which I don't remember what it was now. As I said, I did make a starter about 3 days ahead of time for the stout. And in both cases fermentation started in less that 24 hours (the stout started to show early signs on the surface of the wort within 6 hours).

The Brewers Best Tripel kit I found had Briess LME and DME. I consider these very good. I wouldn't consider the extract old unless the packaging looked like it had been around for a long time. The included yeast was 11 grams of Nottingham. Packaged together in a kit like it was, I wouldn't consider this yeast to be a problem.
I had a True Brew kit where a 5 gram pack of unidentified yeast was taped to the can. The can was dusty and the yeast pack perforated. Storage temperatures and time I consider mishandling.
You have a stalled fermentation with both dry and liquid yeast, and a starter was made for the liquid yeast. Since the problem fermentations were with two different types of yeast, I would suspect another problem.
If you had well aerated worts, and fermentation temperatures were stable, I would look at the water used for brewing. Zinc deficiencies can cause problematic fermentations. Nitrogen deficiency may be a more likely problem with extract, than the zinc deficiency.
I would suggest a yeast nutrient for your next brew to see what the results are. WLN1000 and Wyeast Nutrient are good products. I lately started using the Wyeast nutrient.

 

[imp81318]

The Brewers Best Tripel kit I found had Briess LME and DME. I consider these very good. I wouldn't consider the extract old unless the packaging looked like it had been around for a long time. The included yeast was 11 grams of Nottingham. Packaged together in a kit like it was, I wouldn't consider this yeast to be a problem.
I had a True Brew kit where a 5 gram pack of unidentified yeast was taped to the can. The can was dusty and the yeast pack perforated. Storage temperatures and time I consider mishandling.
You have a stalled fermentation with both dry and liquid yeast, and a starter was made for the liquid yeast. Since the problem fermentations were with two different types of yeast, I would suspect another problem.
If you had well aerated worts, and fermentation temperatures were stable, I would look at the water used for brewing. Zinc deficiencies can cause problematic fermentations. Nitrogen deficiency may be a more likely problem with extract, than the zinc deficiency.
I would suggest a yeast nutrient for your next brew to see what the results are. WLN1000 and Wyeast Nutrient are good products. I lately started using the Wyeast nutrient.

Thanks for the replies and thoughts! Aeration is actually one concern that I have as I've basically just been pouring the wort through a strainer into the fermenter and adding the topoff water by pouring in from about 2 feet above the surface of the wort and calling it good. So aeration is certainly one thing that I'm going to make sure to improve upon in my process.

The Tripel had some issues with stalled fermentation due to cool temps (sitting on concrete floor in unheated basement when it got cold out) and I got it to drop several points by lightly rousing the yeast, moving it to my bedroom closet, and wrapping a heating blanket around it for a few hours to warm it up. And I did have some concerns about the yeast in the kit because the kit was stored on a shelf in the shop, not in a refrigerator or anything, but as you said, I would expect that any yeast issues should've been rectified in the stout by making a starter with liquid yeast. And in both cases, I had an active fermentation that started early.

I kind of doubt the water is the problem because I've been using deer park spring water, but I suppose it is a possibility. I will definitely try using yeast nutrient next time. Do I add that to the starter, or the wort when I pitch the yeast?

 

[flars]

You can add about a sixteenth teaspoon to the starter wort and a half teaspoon to the boil kettle in the last five minutes. This is with the Wyeast nutrient. Not sure of the use recommendation for the WLP1000.
Good aeration will make a difference.

 

[imp81318]

Thanks again. is there any,benefit to using nutrient made by the same company as the yeast?

 

[flars]

I don't think so, both offer about the same combination of nutrients.

 

[vosperp]

I use a yeast starter in every brew now. I also bought an aeration kit for 60 sec blast of o2 before pitching yeast.

I have been buying from Northern Brewer and my LHBS (Maltose Express) has an active brewery and online presence--seems like the have a pretty high turnover and a very professional and dedicated staff. Never had a problem with their kits.

 

[Patrick87]

I am a new extract brewer and my last 2 batches have stalled around 1.020 FG. The first was a Brewer's Best Belgian Triple kit and the second was an Irish stout recipe that I developed using Beer Smith 2.0. I am thinking that perhaps my LHBS isn't moving enough liquid extract and that's causing the problems.

For those of you that have not had problems with FG stalling at 1.020, where do you buy your extract?

What was the O.G.'s of these beers?

 

[vosperp]

All above 1.060, some of the porters and IPA's above 1.070. Definitely necessary for the 1.070's plus but I like to make a starter every time to make sure that the Yeast is working and healthy before pitching.