Extract kit yeast myths dispelled

[podz]

Myth: kit yeasts are crap, all of them are the same strain, and you should change to a proper yeast if you want a good beer.

Fact: Cooper's sources the various strains of ale and lager yeast that is included in the kits from various commercial yeast manufacturers. Cooper's is under NDA not to disclose the manufacturers names. In addition, Cooper's develop at least one of the kit strains themselves. Cooper's Pilsener, for example, includes real lager yeast and needs to be fermented at lager temperatures.

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Myth: kit yeast that has been sitting on the shelf for a year or more has lost most of it's viability.

Fact: I started a 1.5 year old (since date of manufacture) kit of Cooper's Irish Stout using the included dry yeast (pitched dry) less than 20 hours ago and the airlock has been going violently already for the past 5 hours in a 19 celcius fermentation chamber.
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Please add if you have any more myths to dispel!

 

[pmonti80]

I'm afraid those myths are not myths and are really true.
For example, Brewferm states that all their kits use Brewferm top yeast, including wheat kits, pils kits and bock kits.

 

[Hello]

Hmmmm

Okay, well first and foremost, are you speaking specifically about Coopers kits?
Either way, "myth" 1 is one I have not heard. Every single kit I ever bought before I switched to all grain came with different yeasts depending upon style. US-05 being favored but I also was handed Nottingham and S-04. So I never ever would have thought that "myth" 1 was even real. I have also never used a Cooper's kit and likely never will.

"Myth" 2. This has to be up for debate. Yes, your dried yeast pitched had activity after 20 hours. So what was your OG? What was the yeast? What were the yeast's properties (i.e.: alcohol tolerance, attenuation, etc.)

Yeast in kits at a local home brew supply shop with two locations in my general area do indeed sit on shelves for a bit. Yeast does lose viability when it ages. I don't think anyone can really deny that but then again, I don't have the proper equipment to count cells at home to prove or disprove my notion. I simply lean on the experts in the field and their willingness to share their research. It is not to say the yeast is bad or won't work, just that it is possible it can lag taking off or not attenuate as it should have.

I'm not sure I have any myths to dispel unless you count the whole pitching dry deal. I do it and seem to do well without rehydrating.

 

[DaNewf]

Of the Cooper's kits I've done:

Lager
Canadian Blonde
Mexcian Cervesa (sp?)
English Bitter
Dark Ale
Stout

they've all came with the same yeast. I'm not complaining since I've enjoyed each of those kits (some more than others) but I'm wondering if I would have enjoyed them more if a yeast other than the generic Cooper's sachet was used. The list of kits I've done is short but it still covers a range of styles. How can one strain of yeast be the optimum over the entire range?

It's been at a while since I've checked but one or two of the recipes on the Cooper's website suggest replacing the provided yeast with a different one. For instance Robo Choc specifies Danstar Nottingham.

I'm not knocking Cooper's kits. They are what got me into homebrewing. I'm just saying there is a degree of truth in your first myth.

 

[unionrdr]

I understand what he's saying. It's like that college thing where one moron is pounding on a car with a 10lb sledge hammer. The other neanderthals yell OOOGAAAAH! & jump on to beat on it too.
So it is with the lower end kit yeasts. One says they're crap & gives their experience with it. Then others jump in & start talking smack about that yeast. Then as time goes on, you learn more about the various processes involved & come to realize it was partly your own noobness that was partly, at least, to blame. Like Cooper's & Munton's. And I place Cooper's ale yeast above Munton's from experience. Plus Cooper's is 7g whereas Munton's is 6g. Unless you go to NB or Midwest, which have Cooper's ale yeast in 15g packets that're way fresher. The Cooper's is a high flocculation one as well. Rehydrated, I've watched it work head to head with US-05 & the only difference was a little non-descript fruitiness. I even bought a can of Cooper's OS lager once that had a 2 year old yeast packet in it. I did a small starter for it. And that yeast took off so hard, that by the next morning it needed a blow off because it was foaming out of the 3-piece airlock!
Now, having said all that, Many try different yeasts with those kits to see if a more traditional flavor can be had. Yes, it is rather generic in Cooper's & Munton's case to use the same yeast in many of those kits. But c'mon guys, they're ALL ALES! And we all had to start somewhere! Besides, some of those beer kits/styles are of English origin, which is to say they have that non-descript sort of fruitiness to them as well. So that part can be authentic. So there is some truth to what the OP's saying. I've seen a lot of it on here since I've been here.

 

[boydster]

The OP seems to be about Cooper's, and I would say that Cooper's has a pretty decent reputation for making kits that taste decent and get a lot of people started in home brewing. The generic ale strain they use isn't bad - a little fruity, like was mentioned, but there's nothing inherently wrong with that.

That second "myth" though... Don't confuse viability with fermentation. You didn't do a cell count, so you don't know what your viability was. Some yeast was alive, and now it has started reproducing and fermenting your wort. That's as much as you can say with any certainty, and there is nothing really extraordinary about that because it is expected behavior when you put yeast into a sugary, nutrient rich liquid. The rest of your claim warrants some evidence, but unfortunately, "It's fermenting!" isn't evidence. White coats with neat labs and fancy equipment and careers in the field generally say the yeast loses viability over time, and that the rate is effected by temperature (and also by hydration medium). If you can prove otherwise, you may have a future in microbiology research.

 

[podz]

Of the Cooper's kits I've done:

Lager
Canadian Blonde
Mexcian Cervesa (sp?)
English Bitter
Dark Ale
Stout

they've all came with the same yeast.

No, they actually do not.

Look on the back side of the yeast packet and you will see a dot-matrix printed code. It julian date and yeast type.

For example:

The following explains the ink-jetted code on the yeast sachets, supplied with each beer kit:

Sachets carry a Julian date code and may also carry letters to denote the type of yeast. For example, if they were packaged on the 25th of September 2007 = 268th day of 2007:

Original Series:- Ac (26807)

International Series:-
Australian Pale Ale - Ac+L (26807 Int)
Mexican Cerveza - Ac+L (26807 Int)
European Lager - L (26807 P)
Canadian Blonde - Ac (26807)
English Bitter - Ac (26807)

Thomas Coopers Selection:-
Wheat - A (26807 W)
IPA - Ac (26807 IPA)
Irish Stout - A (26807 IS)
Pilsener - L (26807 P)
Australian Bitter - Ac+L (26807 PS)
Heritage Lager - Ac+L (26807 PS)
Sparkling Ale - Ac+L (26807 PS)
Traditional Draught - Ac+L (26807 PS)

Note:
Ac = Coopers ale yeast (our own strain, not the same as the yeast in our commercial ales, developed in-house and propagated under contract).

A = ale yeast and L = lager yeast (these strains are commercially available dry yeast and their details are held in confidence).

Cheers
PB2 - Coopers Brewery

Not all of their Ale Yeast is of the same strain, nor is their Lager Yeast all of the same strain.


Reference:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/i-just-started-coopers-brand-pilsner-today-225808/

 

[podz]

"Myth" 2. This has to be up for debate. Yes, your dried yeast pitched had activity after 20 hours. So what was your OG? What was the yeast? What were the yeast's properties (i.e.: alcohol tolerance, attenuation, etc.)

Of course, everything is up for debate ;-)

OG 1.055. 15 hours to reach a full-blown, machine-gun speed airlock activity from dry pitching, no aeration, etc. I've used fresh US-04, which is nearly twice the size packet, rehydrated, and it didn't take off nearly this fast. Since they do not disclose which commercial brand of yeast they provide, there's no information about it's properties. It's simply the Cooper's Irish Stout (IS) yeast, which they buy from somebody. Their IS yeast may or may not be the same yeast that they include with their OS.

 

[Minbari]

I am not saying he is right or wrong, dont really care. But , it always puts up my alarm bells when someone claims to dispell a myth and then hides behind

Cooper's is under NDA not to disclose the manufacturers names.

you cant make someone beleive it is not a myth or that it is truth with "trust me, its not" Maybe I am just overly pessimistic.

just reminds me of those infomercials that have 3rd party independant lab tests proving that thier diet pills burn fat while you sleep. when asked to show where that lab work was done, they cant because the lab made them sign an NDA. Total BS, any reputable lab would be happy to show you thier results. They just dont want you to verify that they never did any testing or that the testing didnt prove anything, lol.

 

[kh54s10]

The OP only talks of Cooper's kits.... There are so many more kits. Some will have quality ingredients including they yeast and others will have crap.

It is too broad a statement to say that he is debunking any myth based on the limited scope of the kits he chose to compare.

Many kits come with smaller packages of yeast. Often not enough to properly ferment the kit. Depending on where the kit comes from I may have been on a shelf for years....

MYTH not debunked...

 

[DaNewf]

Dammit! Fooled by generic packaging.

Having said that, of the kits I've done only the Cerveza had a different yeast.

 

[podz]

OG 1.055. 15 hours to reach a full-blown, machine-gun speed airlock activity from dry pitching, no aeration, etc.

Update: hit the expected final gravity of 1.012 after 65 hours from pitching, in a room with 19C ambient temperature. First time I ever had a beer finish this fast.

This is also the first time I've made the Irish Stout. This yeast is a real monster. I was expecting 5 days to finish, which has generally been my experience with the Cooper's Original Stout.

Just pulled a graduated cylinder full from the fermenter's spigot and it's got a thick, creamy head, tastes awesome.