extract kit mods (does this seem ok ?)

[dzlater]

My brother got a nice equipment starter kit for Xmas. And a Muntons IPA kit for his first brew (pre hopped extract) . He emailed me and asked if he should substitute DME for the sugar that the recipe called for. I told him yes and also made these recomendations.
did I steer him wrong?

1 boil water
2 remove from heat add the additional DME you bought that will replace the sugar
3 return to heat
4 when it starts to boil add additional purchased hops
5 boil forty five minutes
6 add can of extract that came with kit
7 boil 15 more minutes
8 remove from heat and chill
9 transfer wort to fermenter
10 top off with cool water to reach 5 gallons
11 aerate by shaking the hell out of it
12 pitch yeast
13 inset airlock
14 ferment in the 60 to 70 degree range
15 wait

 

[Brewmasters Warehouse]

I do not think you did him wrong at all, but for his first brew I do not think you needed to mod the kit. Kits are recipes that have been tested many times to come out consistently good. By modding the kit you are making a different beer, and with a pre hopped kit you never know what sort of things were done to the wort to make sure the additional sugar fit into the beer. I am sure that your mods will make a great beer, and it certainly has you more invested in your brother's new hobby.

 

[FlyGuy]

I think it is a good idea to 'supplement' some kits. IPA's are a great example where this is useful. Unless the kit is really fresh, adding some fresh hops can really liven up a good IPA. And substituting DME for sugar in a kit is generally a good idea, also.

Unless you have a reason to increase the bitterness of the recipe, I wouldn't bother with a long boil. I would boil the DME and some hops for 15 minutes to add some hop flavour and aroma. I would also recommend dry hopping in the secondary with another hop addition (e.g., one ounce of your favourite hop) to really get a wonderful hop aroma that is characteristic of this style.

Best of luck to your brother!

 

[dzlater]

Thanks all
I pointed him to this thread so maybe he will post his questions here.

 

[TexasStu]

I'm one to talk (since I did not heed my own advice and modded my very first batch - dry hopped) but I think learning the process, what to expect (tastes, conditions, etc.) should come before making changes. Even justifying it for my own self should have come with a 'Gibbs head smack' from myself to myself for not taking the additional time to crank out some batches first, TRIED them and THEN play 'doctor'/'mad scientist'.
Even though I know what I LIKE I am making assumptions on the kit prior to ever even tasting it. I apologise to the fine folks at Coopers for adding my 'west coast kick' (2oz. cascade dry hop). Now.. if something DOES happen I will be at a loss to explain what.
Kind of like lousy trouble-shooting methods? Ok, so I slapped my hand and promised myself I have only myself to blame.
That being said there is another aspect I've been told by others (some on these forums). At least in regards to the Coopers Kits (and I assume this applies to MOST hopped extract kits)...

Do not boil the malt extract if possible. It is unnecessary and it will darken the beer and caramelize it. Also the bittering in the Lager beer kit will be reduced.

I was told to avoid boiling the extract. After more research and consideration I tend to agree. So how to proceed? I figure (and the more experienced brewers here can and SHOULD correct me) do the boil first, reduce to 150-180 and add the extract. For this I plan on doing a partial boil not a full boil, combining the extract with the hot water and then topping in the fermenter with cold water. An alternative I've considered is to boil water (3ish gallons), cool to 150-180, add extract and cool it down (aeriate, ice bath, etc.) and do the partial grain boil (2ish gallons) seperately and combine in fermenter to get to <=80 and pitch when appropriate.
I'm still looking for feedback on these (UN-proven) techniques but I HAVE been told by folks at more than one distributor of Coopers Kits that boiling the extract is something you really do not want to do. A third method would be reducing boil and adding extract right after losing the boil (which should further cool the mix), then add to cool water or top with cool water. This also illustrates my first point about doing it the 'normal' (kit) way first? Sorry if this is confusing. Hope it helps!

 

[Panzermann]

I never used the sugar with the kits, I always substituted with DME.

 

[winzerz]

I feel you should focus more on the process rather than the end result

it is just like in I.T. or car repair

you change one variable at a time and observe the result

if you change too many things at once and have a winner

you will NEVER know what you did or how to reproduce it

YMMV

 

[TexasStu]

winzerz said it FAR beeter than I.
+1

 

[Austinhomebrew]

I think it is a good idea to 'supplement' some kits. IPA's are a great example where this is useful. Unless the kit is really fresh, adding some fresh hops can really liven up a good IPA. And substituting DME for sugar in a kit is generally a good idea, also.

Unless you have a reason to increase the bitterness of the recipe, I wouldn't bother with a long boil. I would boil the DME and some hops for 15 minutes to add some hop flavour and aroma. I would also recommend dry hopping in the secondary with another hop addition (e.g., one ounce of your favourite hop) to really get a wonderful hop aroma that is characteristic of this style.

Best of luck to your brother!

There is no reason at all to boil the Prehopped can kits that are a style of beer.

Boiling them will not add to the bitterness, it will only darken the beer and make the beer taste worse.

The manufacturers use hop oils. The reason you boil hops is to remove the oils. These kits just have straight hop oil in them. You can make a hop tea with other hops seperately and add them to the wort.

You just need to disolve the syrup. These kits make 6 gallons of beer not 5. They do not foam up as much as a regular beer kit so you don't have to worry about room in your fermenter.

Forrest

 

[FlyGuy]

There is no reason at all to boil the Prehopped can kits that are a style of beer.

Boiling them will not add to the bitterness, it will only darken the beer and make the beer taste worse.

To clarify, you need to boil hops if you are to extract any bitterness from them. I think the OP recommended a boil to do just this.

If you are only interested in adding hop flavour, a short boil is better.

And that's a very misleading statement to say that any boil will significantly 'darken the beer and make it taste worse'. People re-boil kits all the time and make fantastic beer. The only time I would really worry about darkening beer or making it taste 'worse' is if you are doing a lightly colored beer (e.g., a pilsner) and you add all your extract at the beginning of a long boil and you don't boil the full volume of wort (e.g, only 2-3 gallons because your pot isn't big enough).

 

[winzerz]

flyguy not to diss you or anything

but Forrest works/owns a MAJOR LHBS

I trust his advice and welcome his interaction here on HBT

Austin Homebrew Supply Rocks dude

:rockin:

 

[Austinhomebrew]

To clarify, you need to boil hops if you are to extract any bitterness from them. I think the OP recommended a boil to do just this.

If you are only interested in adding hop flavour, a short boil is better.

And that's a very misleading statement to say that any boil will significantly 'darken the beer and make it taste worse'. People re-boil kits all the time and make fantastic beer. The only time I would really worry about darkening beer or making it taste 'worse' is if you are doing a lightly colored beer (e.g., a pilsner) and you add all your extract at the beginning of a long boil and you don't boil the full volume of wort (e.g, only 2-3 gallons because your pot isn't big enough).

I have been told by the manufacturer that if you boil the kit you lose the aroma hops that are there. Don't boil the kit, boil any additional hops you are adding seperately and add.

I am saying that hops need to boil not the hop oils that are in the extract.

Forrest

 

[TexasStu]

Also I posted what one of the American distributors for Coopers Kits said about boiling:

Do not boil the malt extract if possible. It is unnecessary and it will darken the beer and caramelize it. Also the bittering in the Lager beer kit will be reduced.

The Malt Extract is pre-hopped, already pasturized and all that (at least as far as Coopers Kits go).
Now, this is not to say you can not boil any OTHER part of a recipe (or even the kit itself). Only have you may experience undesirable results that the manufacturer did not intend.
In fact, I have recently bought ingredients (coincidentally from AHS - sorry again Forrest for continually adding more stuff to my multiple orders! ) to do a hybrid (partial boil + kit + water) and I just used a couple ounces of cascade hops tossed into a kit beer as a dry hop.
My plans include a future recipe that is a full boil as well but I think I am going to have to buy a CWC first. Too bad cuz if I buy it and a nice pot SWMBO may just put a dent in my obsession! I can smell the hops from here!