Extract addition in last 15min of boil?

[Beerrific]

I am planning on doing my first partial mash soon, Kolsch. I want to try to do a late boil malt addition. I will mash then boil 45 min then add DME. I have put the recipe below and broke the IBU additions up into the first 45 min (with only mash malt) and the last 15 min (with DME added). I think I did it right. Comments are greatly appreciated.

Grains:
2 lbs. Bohemian Pilsner Malt (Moravian) 1.8L
1 lb. munich malt (4-7 L)
8 oz. Flaked Wheat 2.0 L
Mash 90 min at 152F

Add water to 3 gallons.

At this point, with 60% efficiency, the SG should be 1.025.

With a SG of 1.025:
Hops:
0.5 oz. Hallertauer (at SG 1.025 for 45 min 7.7 IBU; at 1.085 for 15 min. 2.4 IBU)
0.75 oz. Saaz (at SG 1.025 for 45 minutes 10.1 IBU; at SG 1.085 for 15 min. 3.4 IBU )

With 15 minutes remaining:
4 lbs. Extra light dried malt extract (1-3 L)

SG now at 1.085

Boil for 15 min more.

Flame off:
1 oz. Saaz (aroma)

Dilute to 5.5 gallons.
OG 1.046
Adding it all up, 23.6 IBU

Yeast:
White Labs Kolsch

Expected FG 1.012 (75% attenuation)

The IBUs are a bit high for a Kolsch, but if it evaporates some this should bring this down (not too much I hope; BU/GU=0.51)

Thanks!! I don't want my Kolsch to come out as dark as molasses like my hefeweizen did.

 

[homebrewer_99]

When I started the late addition I used the chart on page 258 in Charlie P's 3rd edition of TCJOHB.

It states that if you boil 1 gal of water with 1 lb of malt that's 1.040. If you boil that for 1 hour with 1 oz of hops (an understood) you get 30% utilization (the max).

My math skills led me to the 30 min boil which equals 15%. So, if you add 2 oz of hops then you get the same 30% max bittering utilization.

All of my "light" beers have been very light in color, but I admit are cloudier than usual. I remedy this by using gelatin in the secondary 2 days prior to bottling/kegging.

 

[Beerrific]

I don't own that book yet (blasphemy!).

I used http://hbd.org/recipator/ to get the utilizations.

Thanks for the gelatin tip, will do.

 

[homebrewer_99]

I don't own that book yet (blasphemy!).

I used http://hbd.org/recipator/ to get the utilizations.

Thanks for the gelatin tip, will do.

I use Recipator also, but not for utilizations, just because I like the format of the recipe and it converts to a Word.doc well.

As for the gelatin, I know a lot of usage instructions say to use it prior to/when bottling. Trust me on this one, that's NOT what you want to do.

However, be sure not to boil the water. After you add it to your secondary it will start to coagulate/gel and it'll look pretty U-G-L-Y in there.

Don't worry, some will fall out and some will stay in suspension, but all of it will remain in the carboy during the syphon. It washes out easily.

 

[kingjam]

This thread is going aginst alot of books that I have read. Is this tread changing extract brewing as we know it?

 

[DeathBrewer]

it's revolutionary

 

[homebrewer_99]

This thread is going aginst alot of books that I have read. Is this tread changing extract brewing as we know it?

I wouldn't go that far, but it is an alternative way to brew.

 

[LouT]

Do you have to use the gelatin sold by homebrew/wine shops, or can you use nonflavored gelatin from the grocery store? How much are you using in a 5 gallon batch, Bill?

My beer I brewed Saturday was a short (35 minute) boil, with late DME addition, so I'm thinking it'll need the gelatin treatment to halfway clarify.

 

[ytsejam]

For my 1st post I must start off by saying how helpful I found many here to be. There is such passion for the hobby, and willingness to share knowledge in this community, that I am very glad to be a part of it.

I am really intrigued by this late extract edition, as my few rookie batches have seemed dark as many others claim here. I find the idea of shortening the boil & adding more hops to be an idea worth trying too. I was thinking for perhaps combining both ideas into a 15 minute pale ale.
Any idea/suggestions on if this is worth trying?

Here's what I came up with on recipator:

Brewer: ytsejam
Beer: 15 minute Pale Ale
Style: American Pale Ale
Type: Extract w/grain
Size: 5 gallons
Color: 10 HCU (~7 SRM)
Bitterness: 47 IBU
OG: 1.057 FG: 1.012
Alcohol: 5.8% v/v (4.6% w/w)

Grain: 8 oz. American crystal 40L, 8 oz. Cara-Pils
Steep: Steep at 155° for 30 minutes.

Boil: 15 minutes SG 1.095 3 gallons
6 lb. Munton's light DME
1 tsp Irish moss for 10 minutes.

Hops: 3 oz. Amarillo (8.9% AA, 15 min.)
1 oz. Yakima Magnum (15.7% AA, 15 min.)
1 oz. Amarillo (aroma)

Yeast: White labs California Ale WLP001 starter

I just picked midway point of style on FG.
This look ok?
Anyone tried anything similar?

My hops reasoning went: I'll take the clean bittering of the Magnum, but I want the flavor/aroma of the Amarillo.

Ideas/suggestions are surely welcome.

 

[homebrewer_99]

Do you have to use the gelatin sold by homebrew/wine shops, or can you use nonflavored gelatin from the grocery store? How much are you using in a 5 gallon batch, Bill?

My beer I brewed Saturday was a short (35 minute) boil, with late DME addition, so I'm thinking it'll need the gelatin treatment to halfway clarify.

I use the gelatin sold in the HBS. Per Charlie's TCJOHB (3rd ed), page 98 says to use 1 TBS per 225 ml (that's almost 1 cup)...warm to dissolve. Do not boil the water.

I'd let it sit in the secondary to see how it clears on its own before adding anything. If it's still cloudy a couple of days prior to bottling/kegging then add the gelatin.

 

[homebrewer_99]

For my 1st post I must start off by saying how helpful I found many here to be. There is such passion for the hobby, and willingness to share knowledge in this community, that I am very glad to be a part of it.

I am really intrigued by this late extract edition, as my few rookie batches have seemed dark as many others claim here. I find the idea of shortening the boil & adding more hops to be an idea worth trying too. I was thinking for perhaps combining both ideas into a 15 minute pale ale.
Any idea/suggestions on if this is worth trying?

Here's what I came up with on recipator:

Brewer: ytsejam
Beer: 15 minute Pale Ale
Style: American Pale Ale
Type: Extract w/grain
Size: 5 gallons
Color: 10 HCU (~7 SRM)
Bitterness: 47 IBU
OG: 1.057 FG: 1.012
Alcohol: 5.8% v/v (4.6% w/w)

Grain: 8 oz. American crystal 40L, 8 oz. Cara-Pils
Steep: Steep at 155° for 30 minutes.

Boil: 15 minutes SG 1.095 3 gallons
6 lb. Munton's light DME
1 tsp Irish moss for 10 minutes.

Hops: 3 oz. Amarillo (8.9% AA, 15 min.)
1 oz. Yakima Magnum (15.7% AA, 15 min.)
1 oz. Amarillo (aroma)

Yeast: White labs California Ale WLP001 starter

I just picked midway point of style on FG.
This look ok?
Anyone tried anything similar?

My hops reasoning went: I'll take the clean bittering of the Magnum, but I want the flavor/aroma of the Amarillo.

Ideas/suggestions are surely welcome.

I didn't do the math for the 15 min boil versus the larger amount of hops, but if you did a 1 hour boil you only need to use 1 lb of malt. For a 15 min boil you would have to add 3 lbs of malt in the boil w/3 gals of water. Is that your intent?

I've never used the hops you are referring to so I can't say one way or the other.

 

[Bosh]

Hmmm good I found this thread.

I'm going start my second batch of beer brewing this weekend. My first bath was a pre-hopped LME and this time I'm going to be making a honey ale with DME.

My stove is a crappy POS so its good that I can stick the DME in at the end. What the absolute minimum amount of water I should boil with the hops to get all of the flavor out before dumping it with the rest of the water in the bucket. Would a gallon be enough? Two? Even that is pushing it with my crappy stove

Oh and I assume I should boil the honey as well?

 

[homebrewer_99]

Hmmm good I found this thread.

I'm going start my second batch of beer brewing this weekend. My first bath was a pre-hopped LME and this time I'm going to be making a honey ale with DME.

My stove is a crappy POS so its good that I can stick the DME in at the end. What the absolute minimum amount of water I should boil with the hops to get all of the flavor out before dumping it with the rest of the water in the bucket. Would a gallon be enough? Two? Even that is pushing it with my crappy stove

Oh and I assume I should boil the honey as well?

I use 1.5 gal of water for my boils. Add 1 lb of malt for the entire boil and the bittering hops. Add hops and other ingredients per the recipe.

You can add the remaining malt and honey at the end and let sit for 15-20 mins to pasteurize the honey if you want the honey flavor to come through.

I also use PUR filtered tap water which I have in 1 gal milk jugs then place them in the freezer for 4-5 hours prior to brewing to get cold/icy. I brewed last night and after topping off to 5.25 gals in the primary the temp was 64F.

 

[Bosh]

I use 1.5 gal of water for my boils. Add 1 lb of malt for the entire boil and the bittering hops. Add hops and other ingredients per the recipe.

You can add the remaining malt and honey at the end and let sit for 15-20 mins to pasteurize the honey if you want the honey flavor to come through.

I also use PUR filtered tap water which I have in 1 gal milk jugs then place them in the freezer for 4-5 hours prior to brewing to get cold/icy. I brewed last night and after topping off to 5.25 gals in the primary the temp was 64F.

Great! Will do just that...

 

[homebrewer_99]

Great! Will do just that...

I have a nylon net with elastic along the edge that goes over my primary bucket. Be sure to use about 6 cloths pins to hold it on or it will fall in when you pour your wort through it to catch/seperate the hops.

 

[Szerek]

After reading this thread for the 2nd time today I'm still left wondering if you get better clarity from a full boil or from a late addition. There seems to be quite a few conflicting opinions.



I'm going to brew an extract brew this weekend. My first IPA was somewhat cloudy but I didn't use anything for clearing.

My 2nd brew was a fruit beer and I used Irish Moss but it's still VERY VERY cloudy, was bottled that way.

I'd like the 3rd batch to be clear if I can do it.

 

[homebrewer_99]

After reading this thread for the 2nd time today I'm still left wondering if you get better clarity from a full boil or from a late addition. There seems to be quite a few conflicting opinions...I'm going to brew an extract brew this weekend. My first IPA was somewhat cloudy but I didn't use anything for clearing.

My 2nd brew was a fruit beer and I used Irish Moss but it's still VERY VERY cloudy, was bottled that way.

I'd like the 3rd batch to be clear if I can do it.

IMO, it's your fruit that's causing the cloudiness for that brew. Give it more time and it'll fall out I'm sure.

The first and second pics are late addition/all DME brews. The 3rd is a Hefe Weizen BEFORE I pour in the yeast. Clear enough?

 

[Beerrific]

IMO, it's your fruit that's causing the cloudiness for that brew. Give it more time and it'll fall out I'm sure.

The first and second pics are late addition/all DME brews. The 3rd is a Hefe Weizen BEFORE I pour in the yeast. Clear enough?

Those look awesome!

What is the second?

EDIT: I see you already answer "light ale experiment."

Are these using gelatin?

 

[homebrewer_99]

Those look awesome! What is the second?

That one I called a Light Ale Experiment.

I used 5 lbs Extra Light DME, Northern Brewer whole hops, Safale-56 yeast, and gelatin several days prior to bottling. It was a 45 min boil for hop additions and a 15 min steeping period after adding the last 4 lbs of DME.

I am planning to repeat the recipe, but use another hop. I don't think I like NB.

It has a slight oxidation problem (tastes a little like wet cardboard), but not un-drinkable. It still tastes better than BMC in my book.

I think it happened when I added cold water to the brewing pot to cool it before pouring it into the primary. I never did that before and don't know what made me do it that time either, but...it hasn't happened again since I haven't repeated that step.

I purposely overprimed (4 oz of corn sugar to 4 gals of brew) to make it more carbonated. I'm looking to make a good light summer brew. I think I'm almost there. Next time should do it...just have to wait for more DME to arrive...

 

[uuurang]

homebrewer_99, thanks for carrying the torch on this subject. not to mention the input of others. Seems to be a lot of interest in this. I'm still learning lots from posters with questions and those who've gone before.

many thanks!

 

[homebrewer_99]

I didn't realize I was carrying a torch (I thought it was a mug ), but...you're welcome.

I've been doing the late addition brewing for several years. I didn't know anyone else was doing it until recently then all the articles already written on the subject came out of the woodwork so to speak...well, one thing lead to another...I thought I was only brewing beer...

I've been brewing since '94 (took a 5 year break when I moved to Germany in '99) and I still learn a few things around here myself.

 

[paranode]

IMO, it's your fruit that's causing the cloudiness for that brew. Give it more time and it'll fall out I'm sure.

The first and second pics are late addition/all DME brews. The 3rd is a Hefe Weizen BEFORE I pour in the yeast. Clear enough?

I used that method for my hefe too and it was also remarkably clear without the yeast. Makes for a great Krystalweizen if that's your thing too.

 

[RyanJE]

Ok i want in on this thread. Is there any sort of general formula to use to convert a full malt boil down to a water boil with late ME addition?

SHould the hops be cut in half, down to a third? ETC. I konw it depends on what the OG is supposed to be but could we assume it was always 1.050 or would a slight variation in that make a huge difference?

I would like to try this method but dont know how to change the Hop additions.

 

[Kayos]

Ok i want in on this thread. Is there any sort of general formula to use to convert a full malt boil down to a water boil with late ME addition?

SHould the hops be cut in half, down to a third? ETC. I konw it depends on what the OG is supposed to be but could we assume it was always 1.050 or would a slight variation in that make a huge difference?

I would like to try this method but dont know how to change the Hop additions.

Post your recipe...I am sure someone with software will help you. Each recipe is different. My APA was half the bittering and flavor hops, then all the aroma hops.

 

[rcdirtbuggy]

This is a recipe for a simple hefeweizen. if someone could put this into one of their calculators I would greatly appreciate it. Thank You.

6lbs bavarian dried wheat malt extract (60% wheat, 40% barley)
.5oz northern brewer hops 6.8

 

[homebrewer_99]

This is a recipe for a simple hefeweizen. if someone could put this into one of their calculators I would greatly appreciate it. Thank You.

6lbs bavarian dried wheat malt extract (60% wheat, 40% barley)
.5oz northern brewer hops 6.8

If you are you making a German-style HW you would not use NB hops. Hallertau, Spalt, or Tettnanger would be the way to go.

 

[rcdirtbuggy]

i didn't know that. it's just the hops that came with the kit.

 

[homebrewer_99]

i didn't know that. it's just the hops that came with the kit.

Are you intending on using a German Hefe Weizen yeast also?

 

[kingjam]

I am doing the fat tire clone from AHS next week. I want to do the mini mash and also do a full 5 gal. boil. So my question is should I do a 60 min boil adding the ingredients as normal and the the last 10-15 min add the LME? Also when you do a full 5 gal. boil how much of the hops should I cut back on? Thanks

 

[Kayos]

I am doing the fat tire clone from AHS next week. I want to do the mini mash and also do a full 5 gal. boil. So my question is should I do a 60 min boil adding the ingredients as normal and the the last 10-15 min add the LME? Also when you do a full 5 gal. boil how much of the hops should I cut back on? Thanks

Pst the recipe with the amount of hops it calls for and someone will break it down for a late extract addition for you.