Explain Hops to me...

[Bigbens6]

So hops are cool, I like them ,they taste good, they smell good, they make my beer taste good too...

But I do not understand how/why hops ate the begiining of a boil add to BIU and are for bittering, later they are for aromoa, and some times flavor and some times dry hoping too...

Can someone lay it out for me, I would like to better understand the following:

How do you add bittering with hops

How do you add aromoa with hops

How do you add more of the hop flavor

What or why do you dry hop (which i think is just adding hops after fermentation has started no?)

WHY all of these things happen the way they do, not just that they do but what changes over a longer or shorter boil to contribute to aroma/bitterness/flavor...

Thanks guy!

 

[Malticulous]

I don't really know but here is a shot in the dark...
Bittering are boiled for more than 25 minutes, flavor more than 10, and aroma less or not at all. The boil will send off flavor and aroma in the steam.

 

[The Pol]

The oils in the hops impart the bitterness, flavor and aroma... now these hop oils are pretty volitile at high temps. Also, to extract the bittering qualities these oils need to be exposed to boiling temps longer.... THUS!

The compounds that give you that bitterness perception need to be boiled for a longer period to be extracted.

The compounds for flavor need to be boiled a while as well, but if left in the boil for longer than say 30 minutes, they boil off (volatility) and you wont get them.

The compounds for aroma are VERY volitile and will last only minutes in boiling wort, so these hops are added at the end of the boil.

Dry hopping is done to further increase the hop AROMA, since these oils are so sensitive to heat, this is a great way to get that full aroma in your beer.

Then again, I could be totally wrong!

0-10 minutes your aroma compounds will survive, past this, only flavor compounds and bittering

10-30 minutes your flavor compounds are extracted, some bittering(little), past this, you will lose flavor and impart more bittering

30-90 miunutes, you are boiling off flavor and aroma essential oils, but you are getting more optimal utilization of the bittering qualities of the hops

 

[Skipster]

Its has to do with extracting acids. That much I know, when you boil it you pull the alpha acids, (isomerisation?) that is why your hops have a alpha rating. Aroma and flovor hops are added later so the flavor and aroma aren't cooked out of them. Something like that. More technical answers to follow. edit and above

 

[cdburg]

This might give you some more information that will help:
How to Brew - By John Palmer - How Are They Used?

Through my own experimenting and brewing, I've found the following applies to my recipes and equipment:

• As long as hops are added during the boil, they will give you some bitterness. Even hops added at 1 minute before the end of the boil will give you some bitterness, though it's not much.
• Hops added in the last 10 to 15 minutes, as well as dry hopping, will give you aroma. Hops added at flameout (0 minutes) and even dry hops will also give you flavor, but it is different from the flavor you get when hops are added during the boil.
• Though some people will disagree, I've found that hops added at any time, during and after the boil, will give you some flavor contribution. A beer with only a 60 minute addition will have some hop taste, though it may be faint. The addition will provide mostly bitterness, but a little flavor will also make it through the boil.

You'll probably want to experiment on your own to see what hop additions do and which flavors and levels you like best.

 

[Bigbens6]

That about answers the question guys, I personally am looking to toy with flavor profiles, so it sounds like dry hopping is not for me, although i wonder how much affect aroma has on the whole package... it would seem bittering and flavor would be most important... welcome other ideas guys!

 

[Malticulous]

You may be surprised how much aroma effects flavor.

 

[HairyDogBrewing]

+1 on all of the above.

Boiling hops is the the most popular, and you already mentioned dry hopping.

You can also do mash hopping, first wort hopping, use a hopback, and add hop tea.

 

[cdburg]

I wouldn't rule out dry hopping entirely if you're looking for flavor contributions. I definitely get a strong flavor from my dry hop additions.

I recently kegged a red that disappointed me a bit in terms of hop flavor. I dry hopped in the keg with .75 oz Centennial and .75 Amarillo, and it gave it a nice flavor boost.

Dry hopping is not just for adding aroma.

 

[davesrose]

Just something else to add about aroma and flavor....a lot of taste perception is from smell.....So, "flavor" and "aroma" are very similar....I have found that I do like a full aroma with really hopy pale ales. So having a lot of IBUs for the full boil is good for adding a lot of bitterness, and then I also like having nice citrusy hops to put upfront during my aroma hopping schedule. Just my 2 cents, but I've found the most important hops are your first boil hops and then your final finishing ones (and dry hopping will add more aroma).

 

[The Pol]

Yes, I FWH almost everything I brew now!!

 

[Bigbens6]

FWH? we need a comprehensive acronym database haha

 

[cdburg]

There already is one.

First wort hopping - Home Brewing Wiki

 

[hcarter]

Not to hijack, but is it possible to FWH while brewing extracts?

 

[The Pol]

Hrmm, Id say probably. Basically because the magic to FWH'ing a beer is that the FWH addition steeps in the 150F wort while you are sparging. I am not sure how you would accomplish this with extracts, BUT......
The only way I can imagine it would be to heat your water to say 160F, dump in your extract and let the FWH addition steep in there for say 30 minutes, then do your boil. That may work, I have never talked to anyone that has done it with extract though, and I am a complete dummy when it comes to extracts.

 

[jklotz]

So in order to do a fwh with extract brewing, would it make sense to add the bittering hops to the seeping grains before the boil? Would this be in addition to the bittering hops or the bittering hops simply added in at an earlier stage?

 

[The Pol]

I dunno... FW hops are supposed to go in while sparging, and REMAIN in during the boil, so I dont think the steeping bag would work.

Calling all extract brewers...?

 

[hcarter]

So in order to do a fwh with extract brewing, would it make sense to add the bittering hops to the seeping grains before the boil? Would this be in addition to the bittering hops or the bittering hops simply added in at an earlier stage?

I like your idea, and I think that I would still follow the hop schedule given. I may be wrong though.

 

[hcarter]

See, I was wrong.

 

[The_Chemist]

I don't really know but here is a shot in the dark...
Bittering are boiled for more than 25 minutes, flavor more than 10, and aroma less or not at all. The boil will send off flavor and aroma in the steam.

From a chemistry perspective, the compounds in the hops that give aroma are volatile (evaporate quickly) by nature. Otherwise, you would not smell them. The longer these compounds are heated for, the more will be in the atmosphere instead of in your beer.

The heating process might also cause a chemical reaction that produces compounds interpreted as bitter by your tongue. The longer you boil, the more of these compounds are produced.

Of course, I don't know the specifics.

 

[Zordok]

I dunno... FW hops are supposed to go in while sparging, and REMAIN in during the boil, so I dont think the steeping bag would work.

Calling all extract brewers...?

I think jklotz meant to add the hops in a separate bag when steeping the specialty malts. Or at least, that's how I would do it.

Heat water to 155 degF.
Add bag full of specialty malts.
Add bag full of FWH hops.
Wait 30 minutes.
Remove gain bag, pour 2 qts hot water through the bag to sparge.

Continue boil as normal.

 

[scinerd3000]

I dunno... FW hops are supposed to go in while sparging, and REMAIN in during the boil, so I dont think the steeping bag would work.

Calling all extract brewers...?

i never understood either the purpose of FW hopping or addition at flamout. Is flamout really that different than dry hopping?

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

According to George Fix (from Memory) a minimum of 60 minutes is needed to FULLY isomerize all of the Alpha acid in the hop to the compound we actually perceive as bitterness. I have forgotten what that name actually is.

Isomerizeation is the process of separating and rearranging a compounds constituents to create a different compound.

For more, read Principles of Brewing Science or Brew Chem 101 for the cliff notes.

 

[starrfish]

dry hopping really makes a difference in the final product, not just in aroma but it all around flavor. if your a hop-head try it. I highly recommend it, puts a nice hop freshness in that can't be gotten through heat... just time soaking. putting marbles in a hop bag with hops and sinking to bottom of secondary works really well!

 

[cdburg]

i never understood either the purpose of FW hopping or addition at flamout. Is flamout really that different than dry hopping?

In my experience, flameout additions and dry hop additions are different. They produce slightly different aromas (dry hopping will give you a stronger aroma) and different tastes. The beers I like the most have used both a flameout (or whirlpool) addition and dry hopping. It makes for a tasty IPA.

 

[Fat Guy Brewing]

IMO, you guys should stick to basic hop addition schedules for a while. Learn what hopping does for you in a regular boil schedule. Learn to manipulate bitterness, flavor and aroma in a standard schedule first. You are changing too many variables right off the bat to have a good handle on what your outcome will be. You may end up buying a ton more hops (or other ingredients for that matter) than you really need $$$. Not trying to be your dad, just offering some suggestions.

 

[Bigbens6]

On one hand i see your point, on the other you don't know if you don't try. My plan is to get a good base of brews (selection) and get up to 10-15 kits before i start really tinkering with hops, yeats, or ANYTHING for that matter.

That being said, in concept i want to know what is going on and be able to taste a beer, look at the recipe and begin to understand why flavors are coming out they way they are, compare two bottles and recipes and know why one taste one way and the other is different... so posts like this give me sound fundamentals...

 

[scinerd3000]

IMO, you guys should stick to basic hop addition schedules for a while. Learn what hopping does for you in a regular boil schedule. Learn to manipulate bitterness, flavor and aroma in a standard schedule first. You are changing too many variables right off the bat to have a good handle on what your outcome will be. You may end up buying a ton more hops (or other ingredients for that matter) than you really need $$$. Not trying to be your dad, just offering some suggestions.

after reading these posts i figured im gonna do a little experiment. I have 6 1 gal growlers that im going to fill with .75 gals of wort and each will have one hop addition at a different time. ill do a 60 min, 30, 15, flamout, FWH(gonna bring the extract to 155 and steep for 30 mins), and a control group with no hops. Ferment each with 1/6 packet of nottingham yeast and bottle and see how they compare. If nothing else i figure it will be interesting and i will be able to taste differences side by side. And your right- there are many variabled i dont always understand but its nice to just have a little fun sometimes...