Expecting SG 1.09, got 1.07.... Wut?

[zadamxtr]

I've been following the cider videos of the very entertaining City Steading Brews.... Doing my first batch and using myu calculations to convert the 1 gallon they make into the approx 9.5L that I am making, I got 2.3kg of sugar that needs to be added. So 9L of "ginger tea" and a bit of lemon juice, plus 2.3KG of white sugar. The expectation based on their video was that it should end up as 1.09 or so SG, however I only got 1.07. What could be the cause of that?

 

[Zambezi Special]

I wouldn't worry about that.
Could be different fermentation temperature.
Did gou have the same starting gravity and use the same yeast (and same amount?

 

[zadamxtr]

Sorry I should clarify... 1.07 was the starting gravity. In the video they claim that around 1.08-1.09 is what you should expect.

 

[Zambezi Special]

Sorry, I automatically read it as 1.007 and assumed FG.
So you got 1.070 instead of 1.080 to 1.090 as starting gravity?

Can you post the recipe(s)
Theirs and yours?
Maybe a different ingredient?
For instance I make cider from bought apple juice. That juice has a SG of 1.040. Friends in different countries do the same, but their juice is 1.048 up to 1.052!

 

[zadamxtr]

Same amount of yeast. Temperature would probably be different as I live in a warm climate.

 

[zadamxtr]

Sorry, I automatically read it as 1.007 and assumed FG.
So you got 1.070 instead of 1.080 to 1.090 as starting gravity?

Can you post the recipe(s)
Theirs and yours?
Maybe a different ingredient?
For instance I make cider from bought apple juice. That juice has a SG of 1.040. Friends in different countries do the same, but their juice is 1.048 up to 1.052!

So their reciepe calls for 2 pounds of sugar in a gallon.

Since I am making 9.5L, that works out to be very close to 2.5 gallons, so I went with 2.5 * 2 = 5 pounds sugar, which is roughly 2.25kg sugar, which is what I put in.

I went also with 150g of grated ginger, and 6 tablespoons of lemon juice.

The video I am following:

 

[zadamxtr]

Actually this calculator also suggests I should be looking at 1.09:

https://chasethecraft.com/en-au/pages/calculator

 

[Zambezi Special]

All I can think of right now:
Did you first put sugar and then filled up to 9.5 liters?
Or did you put 2.25 kg sugar plus 9.5 litre water (which will have increased your volume and lowered SG)?

(Edit: I see you actually did the first as per sugar wash calculator)

Type of sugar maybe?

My internet is poor, can't watch the video right now

 

[JulianDave]

Did you first put sugar and then filled up to 9.5 liters?
Or did you put 2.25 kg sugar plus 9.5 litre water (which will have increased your volume and lowered SG)?

This could definitely be the issue. Big difference between the two.

 

[zadamxtr]

I actually disolved the sugar in the "ginger tea", and had about 3L containing all the sugar and ginger + lemon. I then added that to a 10L fermenter then filled up the remaining space with water, leaving a bit of a gap at the top which is why I estimate 9.5L. The most the fermenter can hold though is 10L, so even if there is more water than I thought, the total volume of liquid in there cannot be more than 10L. Using that calculator, it still seems like 2.25kg of sugar should be sufficient:

 

[zadamxtr]

Oh and the type of sugar was just plain white sugar cane sugar.

 

[TheBluePhantom]

I did a few batches in late fall and I thought I was doing something wrong. I kept coming up short on gravity. I bought the sugar in bags and trusted the weight marked. But I still came up short, about the same amount. I have to wonder if something is being processed differently, or if a filler is being added. Seems highly unlikely, but so does my hydrometer suddenly being off.

 

[zadamxtr]

I did a few batches in late fall and I thought I was doing something wrong. I kept coming up short on gravity. I bought the sugar in bags and trusted the weight marked. But I still came up short, about the same amount. I have to wonder if something is being processed differently, or if a filler is being added. Seems highly unlikely, but so does my hydrometer suddenly being off.

Thats an interesting point, I wonder if these bags of sugar aren't actually 100% pure sugar.

 

[Zambezi Special]

I can't see anything you are doing wrong.

Try 100 gram sugar filled up to 1 litre with water. Stir, shake, rattle & roll and you should get to 1.040.
Weigh if you can.
Maybe that way we can check on your sugar.

Suddenly thinking that maybe your sugar wasn't mixed in properly or started settling at the bottom. It's a lot of sugar that you use. You may have to use hot or warm water for it to disolve properly

 

[zadamxtr]

I can't see anything you are doing wrong.

Try 100 gram sugar filled up to 1 litre with water. Stir, shake, rattle & roll and you should get to 1.040.
Weigh if you can.
Maybe that way we can check on your sugar.

Suddenly thinking that maybe your sugar wasn't mixed in properly or started settling at the bottom. It's a lot of sugar that you use. You may have to use hot or warm water for it to disolve properly

Yeah I boiled the water to disolve it. I will try the test with 100g sugar and 1L water. thanks for the suggestion!

 

[zadamxtr]

I can't see anything you are doing wrong.

Try 100 gram sugar filled up to 1 litre with water. Stir, shake, rattle & roll and you should get to 1.040.
Weigh if you can.
Maybe that way we can check on your sugar.

Suddenly thinking that maybe your sugar wasn't mixed in properly or started settling at the bottom. It's a lot of sugar that you use. You may have to use hot or warm water for it to disolve properly

OK so the test with 1L water and 100g sugar resulted in pretty much spot on 1.04. I guess there is nothing wrong with the sugar or the hydrometer?

Although to clarify.... I did 1L of water, then added 100g sugar to it. Just re-read your description and that was actually not quite right?

 

[Zambezi Special]

I'm not 100% sure there
Hope someone pitches in with the right answer.

 

[zadamxtr]

I'm not 100% sure there
Hope someone pitches in with the right answer.

Yeah it's got me stumped.

 

[GilSwillBasementBrews]

Temperature of the hydro sample? If hot did you adjust the calculation? Or did you sample at hydro temps?

 

[zadamxtr]

Temperature of the hydro sample? If hot did you adjust the calculation? Or did you sample at hydro temps?

It was indeed pretty warm the first time I took a sample, however I took another a few hours later and it came up only a little bit higher, maybe 1.071 or 1.072. it would have been at room temperature by then which would be maybe 26 degrees C here.

I wasn't using a calculation though, just looking at what reading showed on the hydrometer.

 

[Zambezi Special]

Although to clarify.... I did 1L of water, then added 100g sugar to it. Just re-read your description and that was actually not quite right?

Just got my query answered and head screwed on right again.
First idea was correct. 100 gr sugar and 900 gr water should give you 1.040

 

[Kees]

When doing your calculations: did you convert US gallons or Imperial gallons to liters?

 

[zadamxtr]

When doing your calculations: did you convert US gallons or Imperial gallons to liters?

I went straight from 9.5L to US Gallons, which gives almost exactly 2.5.

 

[Zambezi Special]

Another try at calculations...
What exactly did you use:
I see somewhere 2.24 kg of sugar and 8.14 litre of water?
In that case you should be on 2.24/(2.24+8.14) = 0.216 equals 21.6 brix and should give an SG if round about 1.086

If not then either hydrometer or weighing scale is off
Weighing is far better than working by volume.

Hope you eventually find the issue

 

[zadamxtr]

Another try at calculations...
What exactly did you use:
I see somewhere 2.24 kg of sugar and 8.14 litre of water?
In that case you should be on 2.24/(2.24+8.14) = 0.216 equals 21.6 brix and should give an SG if round about 1.086

If not then either hydrometer or weighing scale is off
Weighing is far better than working by volume.

Hope you eventually find the issue

Yeah it's off and I don't understand why. I didn't weigh the 2kg packet, but it was labelled 2kg in the shop. The remaining 200g or so was measured as one cup (250ml) rather than weight.

 

[Zambezi Special]

You'll still get a nice batch out of what you got with 1.070.
Honestly, I would probably aim for 1.045 to 1.050.
But make it and next batch weigh everything out and let us know if you get right

 

[zadamxtr]

You'll still get a nice batch out of what you got with 1.070.
Honestly, I would probably aim for 1.045 to 1.050.
But make it and next batch weigh everything out and let us know if you get right

Yeah I was going to aim for about 1.04, however I didn't realise how quickly it would ferment, and let it go over 4 days before checking it, and it was already down to 1.024. It certainly tastes stronger and harsher than I was aiming for, but I'm hoping that maybe once it is chilled and carbonate, then served over ice it might be nicer.

 

[Zambezi Special]

Sorry, I meant 1.040 - 1.050 as starting gravity (OG) as I am expecting the yeast to take it down all the way to close to1.000.
After all, it's only sugar for fermentation .

Maybe bottle now in pet bottles, let them carb for one or 2 days without extra sugar, and then straight to a properly cold fridge?

Pls report back on taste etc

 

[zadamxtr]

Sorry, I meant 1.040 - 1.050 as starting gravity (OG) as I am expecting the yeast to take it down all the way to close to1.000.
After all, it's only sugar for fermentation .

Maybe bottle now in pet bottles, let them carb for one or 2 days without extra sugar, and then straight to a properly cold fridge?

Pls report back on taste etc

This is for a Ginger Beer though remember, the goal is to have it still sweet once finished.