Examining possible solutions to issue of sulfur smell from Perlick 650ss faucets

[fun4stuff]

I think it's around 3.

I want to buy flow control taps. Currently using picnic taps.

Should I wait awhile longer to see if perlick comes out with a new mode that doesn't have this problem or buy now? How big of deal breaker is this sulfur problem?

I have a pH meter. Wouldn't be a big deal to test my beer pH and just use a picnic tap or non flow control tap for beer with pH < 3.

 

[LBussy]

I want to buy flow control taps. Currently using picnic taps.

Should I wait awhile longer to see if perlick comes out with a new mode that doesn't have this problem or buy now? How big of deal breaker is this sulfur problem?

I have a pH meter. Wouldn't be a big deal to test my beer pH and just use a picnic tap or non flow control tap for beer with pH < 3.

All signs point to them not changing anything so there's no reason to wait. There's also no reason to worry if you passivate them first. It's really not a big deal. You brew beer, you can do this.

I would not give up my 650 taps no matter what - I just bought more.

 

[Justintoxicated]

my seltzer water ( home made la croix) has strong sulfur odor. I have to dump the first oz. I doubt the ph is that low but don't have a ph meter yet. I get heart burn from coffee etc but not from the water.

It's really unfortunate that they made these out stainless that reacts to low ph when they are made to serve carbonated beverages.

I have the chemicals to passivate them now, I just don't have a 2 hour block of time to do it . I feel like perlick should pay me for 2 hours of work lol.

 

[RevKev]

Has anyone actually ever done an analysis of the suspect 303SS parts to find out the true composition of the Stainless? I mean if they are not 304SS within industry standards Perlick will have no choice but to act upon these claims.

I will have access to some extremely powerful spectroscopy and spectrometry instruments as part of me joining a research group at my University (Analytical Chemistry Ph.D intention) and I have two 650SS taps (A0716G) which I haven't served from yet. Not sure if I wish to bother my advisors for some free time in the lab

Just wondering if anyone has thought or has actually done these analytical tests, as these are advertised as fully 304SS faucets and using a lesser grade product is inherently false advertising and fraudulent in nature. I feel like a report of quantitative means is much harder to dispute than a qualitative analysis based upon re-passivation.

 

[sctcts]

Perlick confirmed that certain components within the taps are 303, though not which ones specifically. But I think we pretty confidently determined which ones are 303, so I don't know if there's any benefit of doing a chemical analysis.

As far as I can tell they are not advertised as full 304 construction, just "stainless steel construction". Though they also say it "will not taint the flavour of beer"...

https://www.perlick.com/bar-beverag...apping-hardwarecomponents/beer-faucets/650ss/

 

[fun4stuff]

Perlick confirmed that certain components within the taps are 303, though not which ones specifically. But I think we pretty confidently determined which ones are 303, so I don't know if there's any benefit of doing a chemical analysis.

As far as I can tell they are not advertised as full 304 construction, just "stainless steel construction". Though they also say it "will not taint the flavour of beer"...

https://www.perlick.com/bar-beverag...apping-hardwarecomponents/beer-faucets/650ss/

The way I see it perlick owes you guys money for the passivation procedure and nice write up on how to perform it. I will probably end up buying the 650s but only because of your guys work. I'll try and avoid "low pH" beer/cider but at least I will be at ease knowing there is some way to fix it if I get the sulfur taste.

 

[andrewmaixner]

Perlick confirmed that certain components within the taps are 303, though not which ones specifically. But I think we pretty confidently determined which ones are 303, so I don't know if there's any benefit of doing a chemical analysis.

As far as I can tell they are not advertised as full 304 construction, just "stainless steel construction". Though they also say it "will not taint the flavour of beer"...

https://www.perlick.com/bar-beverag...apping-hardwarecomponents/beer-faucets/650ss/

Here is their literature:
https://www.perlick.com/files/3914/...ng_Faucets_Presentation_-_630ss_and_650ss.pdf

It clearly states, on page 3, "... 304 sanitary stainless steel for all parts that contact product. ..."




A press release: https://www.perlick.com/files/1914/0422/0235/Perlicks_New_Patented_650SS_Flow_Control_Faucet.pdf

"Additional features of Perlick&#8217;s new, patented 650SS Flow Control Faucet include: ... Every part that comes in contact with beverages is made from 304 sanitary stainless steel, protecting the fragile flavors of wine and craft beer. "


Another press release, says the same thing: https://www.perlick.com/files/1614/2366/2983/Perlicks_650SS_Forward_Sealing_Flow_Control_Faucet.pdf


YET ANOTHER one saying the same thing: https://www.perlick.com/files/1714/2650/9469/PRHighlight_BarBusiness_GOOD_DESIGN_2.2015.pdf



(Note: I'm not arguing about what it is made it, just clearly showing what Perlick very clearly advertised them as.)

 

[LBussy]

You can argue about it, you can not buy it, some people have even returned them. Short of a class action suit I don't know what else to do. I chose to passivate them and use them.

 

[sctcts]

Fair enough, I didn't dig into their old literature. I'm guessing the marketing department just copied the old press release from the 630SS and added bits about flow control, without actually asking anyone in engineering/manufacturing about materials changes. Their specifications are correct on the current webpage.

I think LBussy is right here, it's tough to force Perlick to do anything, especially when not everyone experiences the issue. I'd prefer for them to be more transparent about the issue, but that's just how business goes. Would be nice if they would do refunds/exchanges for people experiencing the issue (I think some homebrew shops may have?), but the cost of that likely outweighs the positive press it would get them among homebrewers. I still think the end product is great, they just need to work on their manufacturing process.

 

[andrewmaixner]

Fair enough, I didn't dig into their old literature. I'm guessing the marketing department just copied the old press release from the 630SS and added bits about flow control, without actually asking anyone in engineering/manufacturing about materials changes. Their specifications are correct the current webpage.
...

That first PDF I linked is from the current web page. They have not bothered to make sure their documentation and claims are updated to reflect the mistake. I attached a screenshot of the current page linking to the inaccurate documentation ( https://www.perlick.com/files/3914/...ng_Faucets_Presentation_-_630ss_and_650ss.pdf )


I am not attacking you at all, just making it very clear that Perlick is NOT doing their due diligence to correct their mistake, in any manner whatsoever -- whether mentioning pH issues in the documentation, or changing / exchanging the part, or changing their claims.

 

[sctcts]

Huh, I didn't realize that was where you found that PDF. You'd think they would just link the one page of that PDF that actually provides growler filling instructions.

Anyways, I feel like this only reinforces my point that their marketing department is just reusing old material &#8211; the page that references 304 clearly shows a 630SS, no flow control.

I agree they should be doing more due diligence to correct these kind of things on their website. They did remove the claim under the product details tab, that's what I was referring to earlier.

 

[fun4stuff]

Can I reuse the lye solution from the first alkaline rinse for the second?

 

[LBussy]

Can I reuse the lye solution from the first alkaline rinse for the second?

Absolutely.

 

[ryantollefson]

Thanks for all the info on here...

I have a keg of carbonated water, and am getting the sulfur smell like people are describing here; sulfur for the first little bit coming through the tap, then it's good until it sits for an extended period of time (8+ hours).

Thing is though, I have the Perlick 630SS faucets. I haven't seen anyone mention these as having the issue... should I try the passivation technique outlined on the whole thing? What else should I consider?

 

[LBussy]

Thanks for all the info on here...

I have a keg of carbonated water, and am getting the sulfur smell like people are describing here; sulfur for the first little bit coming through the tap, then it's good until it sits for an extended period of time (8+ hours).

Thing is though, I have the Perlick 630SS faucets. I haven't seen anyone mention these as having the issue... should I try the passivation technique outlined on the whole thing? What else should I consider?

I run carbonated water as well - it is slightly acidic but I would not expect it to get to the level of what some of us have found to be troublesome. Still, if you are getting the sulfur smell it comes from somewhere.

There's no harm in trying the fix on your internal pieces.

 

[BrunDog]

If he is using RO water there isn't much to buffer the carbonic acid, so the pH can drop by a bit.

 

[fun4stuff]

Absolutely.

Thanks again. The PDF was well organized and easy to follow. Got rid of the sulfur smell/taste that I was getting with my cider. I appreciate everyone's work in putting this together!

 

[LBussy]

Thanks again. The PDF was well organized and easy to follow. Got rid of the sulfur smell/taste that I was getting with my cider. I appreciate everyone's work in putting this together!

Glad to hear it! Love success stories.

 

[ryantollefson]

I run carbonated water as well - it is slightly acidic but I would not expect it to get to the level of what some of us have found to be troublesome. Still, if you are getting the sulfur smell it comes from somewhere.

There's no harm in trying the fix on your internal pieces.

Thanks for the response, I'll give it a shot.

If he is using RO water there isn't much to buffer the carbonic acid, so the pH can drop by a bit.

Nope, city water run through a carbon filter. City lists it as pH of 7.3 on last years water report, but I suppose I could test it to be sure.

This is a new setup, (used corny kegs, but everything else was brand new: lines/taps/regulator/etc.). I took apart the faucets and did a hot PBW soak for about 30 min. Then soaked in warm water for a bit and did a couple of warm water rinses of each part.

Other possible culprits?

• I used Petro-gel on all seals.
• Stainless Shanks between the line & the faucet.
• No starsan/other sanitizer was used for this - I figured it wasn't needed for just tap water.

 

[BrunDog]

Well, that theory is busted. Damn Perlick really should be handling this. This is the first we have heard of issues with the 630's though.

 

[sctcts]

Nope, city water run through a carbon filter. City lists it as pH of 7.3 on last years water report, but I suppose I could test it to be sure.

Just because it's city water doesn't mean it has any buffering capacity. You'd need to check how much carbonates or other minerals that contribute to 'hardness' of the water, this I what gives it buffering capacity. I'm guessing your water is not very hard, so carbonating it would make it fairly acidic. I think carbonated water typically has a pH of about 4? Could be wrong on that...

[*]Stainless Shanks between the line & the faucet.

What type of stainless steel are the shanks? I've seen 303 stainless shanks that could in theory show the same problems as the 650SS taps, though I've never actually heard of it happening.

 

[ryantollefson]

Just because it's city water doesn't mean it has any buffering capacity. You'd need to check how much carbonates or other minerals that contribute to 'hardness' of the water, this I what gives it buffering capacity. I'm guessing your water is not very hard, so carbonating it would make it fairly acidic. I think carbonated water typically has a pH of about 4? Could be wrong on that...

Could be this... pretty sure we're considered to have fairly soft water...
Total hardness on city report is listed at 37.

Will a pH meter be accurate on carbed water? I just got one, but haven't started using it yet.

What type of stainless steel are the shanks? I've seen 303 stainless shanks that could in theory show the same problems as the 650SS taps, though I've never actually heard of it happening.

Shanks are from Keg Connection, listed as 304 stainless... guess it could be wrong specs though.

 

[sctcts]

Yep, that's pretty soft water.

I think a pH meter should be accurate on carbonated water. Might as well try it, I don't see how it could hurt.

I doubt the specs are wrong, 303 stainless shanks are pretty rare from what I've seen.

 

[LBussy]

You could always passivate your shanks - that would make sure all SS pieces are handled. I can't see them being an issue but you never know. Since you'll have the chems out anyway it's an easy thing to do.

 

[EternalHoppiness]

Wow, a huge thanks to agrazela, sctcts, and LBussy! I followed Lee's instructions on my two 650ss, and the sulfur smell is gone, even on the first pull after a week out of town. What a relief!

In my case it was sparkling mead on both 650ss faucets. One was worse than the other, but it had been through one extra star-san cycle. Now both are sulfur free.

I was baffled until I found this thread, as I never had any problems on my 530ss or 630ss faucets, even with mead and cider. I never imagined it would be the stainless that was the problem.

Thanks guys!

 

[LBussy]

Awesome that it worked for you! It's science but I'm still thrilled when it works.

 

[ryantollefson]

Could be this... pretty sure we're considered to have fairly soft water...
Total hardness on city report is listed at 37.

Will a pH meter be accurate on carbed water? I just got one, but haven't started using it yet.



Shanks are from Keg Connection, listed as 304 stainless... guess it could be wrong specs though.

The plot thickens... after a few weeks of use, the sulfur smell completely went away - even after letting it sit for up to a week at a time.

Then this afternoon I actually got around to mounting my taps (they had just been loose in the fridge), and check out what the shank looks like.

I think I found the culprit, and I'm no metallurgist, but this doesn't seem like 304 stainless to me.

 

[gnef]

It looks like you need to have a conversation with Keg Connection.

Does the silvery metal part flake off revealing the copper colored metal underneath? If so, that definitely sounds like a chrome plated brass shank.

On an all-stainless shank, you can drill, sand, or remove material with some other method, and it should not change color. This makes me want to take each of my shanks to my disc sander and double check them now.

 

[BrunDog]

You should be able to see the difference between chrome and stainless. But as noted some physical abrasion would be proof.

 

[ryantollefson]

It looks like you need to have a conversation with Keg Connection.

Yeah, I went to bed pretty upset about this. I was going to give them a chance to fix it, but was not really trusting them after seeing this... just went and was reviewing my order info before I called them... apparently I'm an idiot, and somehow selected the wrong shanks. I picked stainless on almost everything in the kit I bought, but must have missed a dropdown somewhere on the shanks.

Looks like this one was entirely my fault... :smack:

Back to Keg Connection to order the right thing.