Entering someone else's recipe in a contest...

[kdagostino]

I noticed a lot of people mentioning that they have used other peoples exact recipes and have entered them in competitions and it has always seemed a bit weird to me. I am still at the point where I use other peoples recipes with awesome success, my hat goes off to those who lend their brewing knowledge to the rest of us, but I think to enter another person's hard work into a competition as your own is perjury in a sense. It just seems that if you're using other people's recipes in competitions you're not yet at that point in your brewing capabilities to be entering them. Sorry if this offends anyone just a thought.

 

[Black Island Brewer]

If you have ever listened to Jamil Zanichef, or read Brewing Classic Styles, you'll know his idea is that brewing someone else's recipe is no perjury. Brewing techniques, equipment and other variables have such a HUGE impact on the finished product that a recipe is simply not enough to guarantee success. So rest easy, and know that if you or someone else wins an award with someone else's recipe, they deserve it!

 

[Darwin18]

It's almost impossible for two brewers to enter an identical beer to a competition even if they brew an identical recipe. The judges also don't get to see the recipe when judging so there really is no issue with using published recipes.

 

[501irishred]

It's almost impossible for two brewers to enter an identical beer to a competition even if they brew an identical recipe. The judges also don't get to see the recipe when judging so there really is no issue with using published recipes.

+1. There are in fact competitions that require a specific recipe to be used by all contestants (brew clubs mainly). Who can brew it the best?.......... You'd be surprised how different some of them are.

 

[cluckk]

There are so many factors impacting results that the list of ingredients is only part of what makes a beer. Boil intensity, fermentation temperature, water used, pitch rate, aeration level, equipment, sanitation, etc. the beer submitted is the sum of all these parts. Even the same brewer can change certain of these between batches and make a very different beer.

 

[eltorrente]

You will never, EVER reproduce someone else's beer.

There are soooo many variables. Your water is different, grains and hops are different freshness, fermentation temps will be different, boil and hop utilzation will be different, yeast cell counts, bacteria and "house flavors", aeration, blah blah blah.

You might get close to a certain recipe, but it won't taste like whoever posted the recipe. This is one of the many reasons to learn to formulate your own recipes for your own tastes and equipment.

 

[unionrdr]

Besides the fact that BJCP sactioned events require brewing the best example of a style. That seems to be the gist of it anyway.

 

[GrogNerd]

also applies to baking or cooking contests

they're not judging the recipe, they're judging the final product.

I would be proud if someone won a competition with one of my recipes. also, kind of pissed, because I haven't even won, placed or showed in a brew club monthly comp

 

[AnOldUR]

Besides the fact that BJCP sactioned events require brewing the best example of a style.

Exactly, but realize that it's an example of a style, not a recipe. There is a wide degree of flexibility in most of the categories and brewer’s interpretation of that can vary. Staying within the guidelines, but brewing and finding a quality beer that's unique should be the challenge of a winning brewer and a good judge in a BJCP competition; not who's the best at cloning SNPA.

 

[Darwin18]

I would be proud if someone won a competition with one of my recipes. also, kind of pissed, because I haven't even won, placed or showed in a brew club monthly comp

If you're not already doing so: actively control your fermentation temperatures, pitch an active, healthy, and sufficiently large enough volume of yeast, and use a solid recipe. This is the not so secret way of getting your beer to consistently score in at least the mid-30's in BJCP competitions and giving it a solid shot at a ribbon. There are other areas you can focus on that can take it from the mid-30's to the 40's.

 

[Darwin18]

Exactly, but realize that it's an example of a style, not a recipe. There is a wide degree of flexibility in most of the categories and brewer’s interpretation of that can vary. Staying within the guidelines, but brewing and finding a quality beer that's unique should be the challenge of a winning brewer and a good judge in a BJCP competition; not who's the best at cloning SNPA.

Generally, the beers that win their categories are those that:

A) Are well brewed in that they do not contain discernible flaws. You would be amazed at how many entries are significantly flawed with poor fermentation or sanitation techniques or just plain oxidized. Probably about 50% of the entries in a flight in your typical competition will have at least one significant flaw.
B) Fits generally within the style descriptors, but at the same time pushes the limits of the style. You need to fit into the requirements but also stand out from the rest at the same time.

 

[GrogNerd]

If you're not already doing so: actively control your fermentation temperatures, pitch an active, healthy, and sufficiently large enough volume of yeast, and use a solid recipe. This is the not so secret way of getting your beer to consistently score in at least the mid-30's in BJCP competitions and giving it a solid shot at a ribbon. There are other areas you can focus on that can take it from the mid-30's to the 40's.

I consider myself still shiny in all this. a little over a year and 12 batches under my belt and #11 is my best so far. (#12 only a week into bottle conditioning/carbing, so can't say how that turned out)

#11 is the one where I really focused on the temp control. did a water bath while swapping out frozen gallon jugs, kept fermentation temps under 67 for the entire first week, then under 70 for the next 2. luckily, the unfinished part of my basement is mostly underground & stays at 68-70 year round. I do have a fridge dedicated to home brew, but have yet to convert it into something that will work for fermenting a 5 gallon batch AND hold my ready-to-drink stuff.

the one brew club I'm in is mostly comp club, the other is tasting/critiquing and the guys in the latter club say they can definitely tell I've improved over the past year.

plus that line was mostly a throwaway joke. don't you know me by now?

 

[progmac]

you should try my wife's pie crust. it is flaky, buttery without being heavy, and crisp without being brittle. it is the perfect crust. she'll give you the recipe and then you'll make it and it will be a lifeless blob like most homemade pie crusts i've had.

she has been rolling and handling crusts for 20 years. she knows exactly how much handling is enough and exactly how much is too much. she knows exactly how far to stretch the dough without breaking it. she knows exactly when to pull her pie from the oven or exactly when to cover the crust.

considering all that goes into it, the recipe itself is almost trivial.

 

[eltorrente]

you should try my wife's pie crust. it is flaky, buttery without being heavy, and crisp without being brittle. it is the perfect crust. she'll give you the recipe and then you'll make it and it will be a lifeless blob like most homemade pie crusts i've had.

she has been rolling and handling crusts for 20 years. she knows exactly how much handling is enough and exactly how much is too much. she knows exactly how far to stretch the dough without breaking it. she knows exactly when to pull her pie from the oven or exactly when to cover the crust.

considering all that goes into it, the recipe itself is almost trivial.

This is a great example.

I'm a terrible cook. I use recipes because I have no confidence in my abilities, especially when I cook something I haven't tried before. I watch cooking shows and try techniques I've seen by various famous chefs - but I would never win a cooking contest, that's for sure.

I think a lot of people are like that with beer. No confidence, so they use recipes and imagine that they are making it the same as the original brewer. There's just too many things involved in the final product, plus you have to make adjustments on the fly, and if you don't have the equipment, experience, or general knowledge - the final product will take a hit.

 

[GarageDweller]

your wife's pie is crusty...

 

[Darwin18]

I consider myself still shiny in all this. a little over a year and 12 batches under my belt and #11 is my best so far. (#12 only a week into bottle conditioning/carbing, so can't say how that turned out)

#11 is the one where I really focused on the temp control. did a water bath while swapping out frozen gallon jugs, kept fermentation temps under 67 for the entire first week, then under 70 for the next 2. luckily, the unfinished part of my basement is mostly underground & stays at 68-70 year round. I do have a fridge dedicated to home brew, but have yet to convert it into something that will work for fermenting a 5 gallon batch AND hold my ready-to-drink stuff.

Focusing on temperature control for every batch, including when pitching my yeast was a huge factor in improving my beers. Making yeast starters has also really improved them as well. I expect my beer to consistently be good and to score well in competitions, and usually it doesn't let me down. I'm not trying to brag, but really active temperature control + yeast starters is the real secret to brewing great beer.

I always get a kick out of threads when people will agonize over minute details like extracting an extra 0.01% efficiency or whether they should add 0.01 lbs of X specialty grain, and then read that they just pitch a vial of yeast and put the fermenter in a corner of their room. It sounds like you're on the right road though. It's not early to ask for another chest freezer for Christmas - at least you'll be certain you'll have the biggest gift under/next to the tree.

the one brew club I'm in is mostly comp club, the other is tasting/critiquing and the guys in the latter club say they can definitely tell I've improved over the past year.

That sounds like you have a great resource at hand. You can give anyone beer but if they're giving you real feedback and aren't terribly concerned about destroying your self-esteem by giving you the honest truth, then you're set. That's what you can kind of expect in a competition, but the judges will likely never talk to you or know your recipe.

 

[GrogNerd]

That sounds like you have a great resource at hand. You can give anyone beer but if they're giving you real feedback and aren't terribly concerned about destroying your self-esteem by giving you the honest truth, then you're set. That's what you can kind of expect in a competition, but the judges will likely never talk to you or know your recipe.

two great resources, and some of the same guys in both clubs

and they can be brutal, but they're honest, so I consider them invaluable.

standings after 7 monthly competitions (there have been 8, I missed 2 plus October, results of which have not been posted yet) only reason I'm in the top 10 is you get 2 points per entry

 

[TheZymurgist]

The only time I can see an issue is entering a Pro/Am competition. If you're competing for a chance to have it brewed commercially, then it would be disingenuous to enter someone else's recipe. But, there's no way anyone would ever know unless it was a hugely popular recipe, and one of the people reading the recipe happens to be aware of it. Some of the more popular Northern Brewer recipes come to mind.

I wondered about this issue in the beginning, but if you look at Austin Homebrew's website, they tout the fact that homebrewers have won ribbons with their recipes.

 

[Phunhog]

I have always wondered what would happen(probably nothing) if you brewed beer on a commercial level that are just "clones" of the most popular beers out there. The recipes are out there...so why reinvent the wheel?