English yeast...wy1469 or A09

[rmr9]

I’ll have to look through my old notes and see which videos worked for me. Mine had a cooling jacket but I removed it because it was gross looking and I don’t have the setup to even use it. I’ve half a mind to find some way to insulate the chamber but really I don’t mind tasting a quarter pint of warm kinda stale beer before I draw my “real” pint. My beer engine is an old hi-gene model which to my understanding isn’t manufactured anymore but RLBS still sells parts for them.

 

[hottpeper13]

I was at a club meeting that featured cask ale. There were 8 pins and a corny keg. I ask my friend why the keg was upside down. He put priming sugar in then racked on top then sealed it with 30 lbs of CO2 and inverted it. To serve he attached a picnic tap to the CO2 in and a black disconnect to the out. Is a beer engine needed? I don't know. Is a pin needed? I don't know. Real ale at a party, definitely needed!

 

[Northern_Brewer]

To serve he attached a picnic tap to the CO2 in and a black disconnect to the out. Is a beer engine needed?

Up north we would say yes, down south maybe not. Obviously all beer was served on gravity in The Good Old Days, but these days you'll only very, very rarely see it in pubs. It's pretty much the norm at beer festivals though, apart from the most hard-core ones up north, as the logistics of plumbing in dozens of handpulls are insane. But eg Manchester has over 150 handpulls :
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/thread...r-favorite-recipe.472464/page-54#post-8767159

I’ve read the debate between sparkler and no sparkler and thought to myself “is it all that different?” Well yes, I can say firsthand it is! The sparkler tip pint was great, malty and a little sweet and very creamy - not much in the way of hops. The non sparkler tip has a great balance but lots more hop character. I greatly prefer the non-sparkler tip pint. It’s perfect though: my wife loves malty beer with minimal hop character and I love a beer with balance and a touch of hops. Sparkler on for her, sparkler off for me!

Which is one reason why northern beers tend to be brewed a bit more bitter.

 

[rmr9]

I’ve definitely read a lot about people using cornies as improvised casks and actually considered doing it myself until I found a brand new pin for less than a new corny. I really like my beer engine and cask setup, maybe it slightly limits the styles I can brew up but I think you can still do a lot.

NB the difference between northern and southern bitter recipes I’ve looked at make a lot more sense now. Definitely need to “build” your recipe to accommodate the sparkler.

 

[Merkur]

No idea about open fermentation, but can't go wrong with either of these yeast - Timothy Taylor vs Fullers, both fantastic bitters.

One very important difference that has not been noted - 1469 is capable of crawling out of any fermenter. Do not underestimate the krausenzilla this yeast will produce. Just when you think you are safe (it kind of has a two stage fermentation), the beast emerges.

Check out the video.

Great video.

 

[Merkur]

Great thread. I am an expat Brit in PA and have been trying to brew a ‘perfect British pint’ for years. I have had a dialogue going with the brewer of my favorite British bitter for several years and brewed my latest iteration last Friday. I used A09 for the first time at 67F and that yeast is a beast! I have a Spike conical with a sight glass at the bottom and fermentation was active four hours after pitching. It completed by this Monday - 72 hours after pitching.
The beer from the sample port is very clear already, lightly carbonated (I use a spunding valve at around 8psi), great color and the yeast attenuated to 77% for a 4.2% beer. The malt character was good but the hop character was too bitter, almost astringent although I am sure this will mellow After aging and cold crash. After all the sample was only three days after pitching. The sample I tasted lacked the fruity esters I was expected and feel that maybe I should have bumped up the fermentation temperature by more than the o
two degrees I bumped it to finish.
I too hanker for a hand pump and may pick one up next time I’m in the UK. In advance of that I am thinking a cask on stillage may be the way to go. Are you guys admitting air to the casks when drawing off the beer or using a CO2 aspirator valve for a ‘blanket’ layer of gas and longer life in the cask?
In my experience, casks are good but designed for high turnover applications like beer festivals or pubs where they can be emptied in 4-7days.

Paul

 

[rmr9]

A09 rips through wort like a champ! Like yours, mine was done in a couple days. I fermented in the mid 60s and I have a pretty good ester profile. Fruity but not over the top.

I use a cask breather to help prolong the shelf life. When the world returns to “normal” and I can comfortably have people over again I’ll probably try it open to the air. For now, 5.4 US gallons is too much to get through in a week or less. I did somehow lose a 5lb tank of CO2 through some kinda leak or what have you when I had the breather hooked up the first time. Not sure where it was at because all my junctions passed the soapy water test. My running hypothesis is that the PSI got too high for the breather so it vented, or it got too high for the regulator which then let go through the PRV. Now I turn the tank on and off whenever I want to draw a pint.

 

[rmr9]

I also use a cask widge so I can serve with the cask on end so it doesn’t have to be horizontal. Fits into my fridge that way!

 

[Merkur]

Now I turn the tank on and off whenever I want to draw a pint.

This sounds like a good plan.

 

[DuncB]

Re your lack of fruity esters, could be due to the pressure ferment even though low. I start mine off open ( PRV open) for first 48 hours or so and then during this phase esters hopefully made. Then as OG falls to say 1024 close it up and let pressure rise to the vols I need.
If you are pressuring from the off you can try to go a few degs celsius higher to promote the esters that are suppressed with the pressure.
I've just brewed the Five points bitter clone and that is a northern style bitter with about 150 g of fuggles in boil and at flameout.
Harveys Sussex a southern bitter only 80 g of hops.
One meant for sparkler and the other not.
I'm trying to track down 5 litre mini kegs to use for the real cask effect prime, secondary vent and then engine. Should be able to fill these from the primary tank a week or so in advance and it might work.
Bags work well with the beer engine and can be down to 3 litres so possible to condition, open and let air in and pull it out.
Can't find any pins down here either.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

NB the difference between northern and southern bitter recipes I’ve looked at make a lot more sense now. Definitely need to “build” your recipe to accommodate the sparkler.

As I said - it's one factor, but even in the glass, northern bitters tend to be more bitter. Some of that is down to attenuation and water minerals though.

 

[Merkur]

When you say bags, are you referring to the 1 gallon plastic ‘bladders’ I have seen in some British brew-pubs? I haven’t seen them in use in the states. It’s all growlers although in the past year I have seen some ‘beer boxes’ which work the same as a wine box.

What about key kegs? I saw a lot of those in use in Europe a couple of years ago and think the concept is great. I haven’t seen them used for Homebrew though but there’s no reason they can’t.

 

[DuncB]

Yes they are a variant of wine bags, some double skinned to reduce oxygen entry, yes 5 litre or one gallon are available ( i bought mine online from china), but quite small for a brew pub unless for off sales. I have some 20 litre ones as well.
Key kegs are good, need a different connector for them and filling a bit tricky I think from watching the videos.
I find them good with some surgery to the top and the bag ripped out as a 30 l or 20 litre keg. I just modify the top so that a triclover ball lock adapter fits on. But this works as a normal keg not bag being pressurised. OR as a secondary ferment vessel with a bung in the top and an airlock. I get them for free.
Key kegs also make great stools in a bar area with a cushion on the top but don't depressurise them and take the bag out they lose their strength and will collapse.
I was thinking these might be the best
https://www.wildbeerco.com/browse/c-Mini-Kegs-51 small batch and they are reusable, can be bought with beer in drunk and then sanitised or bought new, lots of youtube showing how to do this. Not going to dry hop in one of these though as probably difficult to clean out.

 

[Merkur]

I like the idea of buying a mini-keg, drinking the contents and re-using the container. These empty mini-kegs are available here. Good plan?
https://www.homebrewing.org/Mini-Keg-with-Tap_p_2959.html

 

[DuncB]

Well if it's good enough for the pros!

Trouble is I can't find these in New Zealand at all, filled with beer or empty. Saw some a while ago but now can't track them down, they were or our ebay equivalent here.

Might have to make some mini casks out of HDPE container I think, and get a cask widge.

 

[rmr9]

I’ve used both the mini kegs and a polypin - just a plastic cube like you mention though mine was 5 gallons instead of 1 gallon, but I have 2 1 gallons that I haven’t used.

The mini keg was ok, I definitely under primed and under filled because I didn’t want it to burst after having read horror stories. Also used it for a hefeweizen which honestly was pretty poor at lower carbonation. The polypin worked alright, collapses as you draw off the beer. I think they’re oxygen permeable so you have that to consider as well. Honestly the polypin isn’t a bad investment at all for having “cask ale” at home. The smaller sizes allows for some experimental dry hopping as well.

 

[Merkur]

Good inputs. Thanks guys.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

What about key kegs? I saw a lot of those in use in Europe a couple of years ago and think the concept is great. I haven’t seen them used for Homebrew though but there’s no reason they can’t.

Trouble with keykegs is that they're expensive (around US$20 wholesale last time I looked) and there's a bit of a kickback against them for being a lot of plastic that effectively gets used once. But modern beer industry in the UK at least would look rather different without them.

@DuncB, you're seeing the side-effects of the pandemic, which has caused huge demand among British breweries at least for mini-cask/kegs for takeaway/home delivery, they've been a huge success over the last year which means they've become like gold-dust. I'd assume supply will become much easier as the pubs reopen (currently planned for Monday week in England, albeit only outside).

 

[DuncB]

Trouble with keykegs is that they're expensive (around US$20 wholesale last time I looked) and there's a bit of a kickback against them for being a lot of plastic that effectively gets used once. But modern beer industry in the UK at least would look rather different without them.

@DuncB, you're seeing the side-effects of the pandemic, which has caused huge demand among British breweries at least for mini-cask/kegs for takeaway/home delivery, they've been a huge success over the last year which means they've become like gold-dust. I'd assume supply will become much easier as the pubs reopen (currently planned for Monday week in England, albeit only outside).

Yes agreed it's a covid effect re the supply of cans worldwide. Bizarrely they have a lot more bottled beer than cans down here, I think it's a bit of distance and demand thing as well. Small country not much demand.

I think these are good
https://www.brouwland.com/en/our-pr...polykeg-smartkeg-w-o-bag-amber-24-l-s-fitting
Have two of them that I have been reusing for 2 years now, got them from a local craft beer bar they had imported some italian beer in them.
Nothing wrong with them at all. Reusing the plastic kegs really does get eco value from them, same as reusing the key kegs.

I wouldn't bank on the UK coming out of 2021 without another lockdown even with the vaccine success.
Europe a poor example of vaccinating but New Zealand hopeless, only 27 000 so far in about 6 weeks and 450 000 doses on the shelf.
Anyway this is a beer thread so I'm climbing off my barrel.

 

[Merkur]

Trouble with keykegs is that they're expensive (around US$20 wholesale last time I looked) and there's a bit of a kickback against them for being a lot of plastic that effectively gets used once. But modern beer industry in the UK at least would look rather different without them.

A very valid point. Thanks.

 

[rmr9]

Picture from the batch. Came out clearer than many of my other beers, but not brilliantly clear, even with isinglass.

 

[DuncB]

Mine's not clearing well with Super F either, think there is still a bit of activity in the yeast bottle on the bottom of the fermentasaurus.
I need to take that off and reduce the yeast load.

 

[rmr9]

I’m wondering if I should chill the cask then roll it around to see if the isinglass will go back into solution and pick off some of the chill haze.

 

[DuncB]

Not sure that ISinglass works again and again. Surely wouldn't be chill haze at 12 celsius so it must be another haze.
I normally put clarity ferm in the fermenter which helps break down the chill haze proteins specifically without affecting other things. But I don't put it in ales that are at cellar temps or in dark beers unless I want them Low gluten.
Glad to see no sparkler on that Southern Ale.