Electric HLT/BK Control Box Question

[rudy0498]

Quick Sanity Check Please.

I'm getting ready to start my electric control Box for an e-herms system. I have purchased the Auber SYL-2362 PID with an ebay SSR to control the 5500w element in the BK. Late in my planning I decided to add a Love TS2 to do a simple on/off temp control for the 1500W element in the HLT. I have already been using a Ranco to control the HLT, and just figured I'd build the same functionality into the control box.

So the question I have is this: Is the PID capable of powering both the HLT and BK simultaneously? If so, should I just add a 2nd SSR (would also need a different thermocouple) for the PID to control the HLT too rather than using the Love Controller? If this is possible, it would be a slightly more cost effective solution and give me some flexibility to increase the power of the HLT element in the future if I chose to increase my batch size. Is this flexibility worth delaying the start of this project until I can get the parts?

Thought?

 

[Sawdustguy]

So the question I have is this: Is the PID capable of powering both the HLT and BK simultaneously? If so, should I just add a 2nd SSR (would also need a different thermocouple) for the PID to control the HLT too rather than using the Love Controller? If this is possible, it would be a slightly more cost effective solution and give me some flexibility to increase the power of the HLT element in the future if I chose to increase my batch size. Is this flexibility worth delaying the start of this project until I can get the parts?

Thought?

The PID can not control both your BK and HLT simultaneously. If I were you I would purchase a second PID, SSR and RTD instead of using the Love Controller because the Love Controller is designed for controlling a compressor, motor or fan for something like a fermentation chamber or kegorator. It can not drive a SSR directly like a PID can and my feeling is that the PID will give you better control over the temperature than a simple on/off controller. Thats my take on it and what I would do, but it is not my money. You have to do what is right for you.

Monitor and control temperature for heating and cooling applications with the Series TS2 Digital Temperature Switch. The Series TS2 offers twelve programmable functions to customize the unit to fit application requirements. Use the 15(5) Amp SPDT relay output to drive a motor, compressor, or fan. Designed with the OEM in mind, the TS2 offers the ability to configure multiple units with the touch of a button. Programming multiple units is quick and easy. Simply program one switch with the desired parameter settings and connect the configuration key (sold separately) to the back of the unit. Press the button on the configuration key and download the parameter settings. Connect the key to the other switches to upload the stored settings with the push of a button.

The TS2 features set point adjustments, static defrost timing, compressor mean time, hysteresis, and ambient probe adjustment. Security protection is offered using a password code. The Series TS2 Digital Temperature Switches are designed to operate with PTC (1000Ω @ 25°C) probes sold separately.

 

[passedpawn]

You can drive 2 SSRs simultaneously with the PID. You need at least 1 SSR (better 2) per element (unless you want both of them on at the same time for some reason... but that is not what you are saying, is it?)

HOWEVER, you might not have the power from your wall for the elements. The 5500W element is designed for 240VAC. What is the voltage rating for the 1500W? If it is 120V, you cannot use it on 240VAC.

If both elements are 240VAC elements, you will be drawing 29.1A. If this is on a 30A circuit, you might be tripping your breaker a lot. That is too close in my opinion. Be careful there.

 

[rudy0498]

You can drive 2 SSRs simultaneously with the PID. You need at least 1 SSR (better 2) per element (unless you want both of them on at the same time for some reason... but that is not what you are saying, is it?)

HOWEVER, you might not have the power from your wall for the elements. The 5500W element is designed for 240VAC. What is the voltage rating for the 1500W? If it is 120V, you cannot use it on 240VAC.

If both elements are 240VAC elements, you will be drawing 29.1A. If this is on a 30A circuit, you might be tripping your breaker a lot. That is too close in my opinion. Be careful there.

I have a 50A circuit so tripping the breaker shouldn't be an issue. It is a 120V element.

I knew that it can handle 2 SSRs on both legs of a 240V element. I guess what I should have said is can it independently control 2 unique processes...IE...BK in manual mode while maintaining a set temperature on the HLT.

So adding another PID takes it from being "cost effective" to an increased cost. I'm pretty confident that I can unload the Love Controller in the classifieds and get most of my money back on it, but I won't come close to breaking even on it.

I planned this project and bought everything about 6 months ago, and I'm just getting around to doing it. While not ideal, at the time I was trying to stay under budget and thought that the Love controller would do what I needed it to do. Lately, I've been thinking about stepping up to 10 gallon batches in the near future and the 1500W element would have trouble maintaining the temps for the added volume. So the added $50 or so to use a PID instead of the on/off controller makes sense, I'm just annoyed that I have to delay my build that much longer to get the parts...not to mention explaining to SWMBO why I'm spending more $.

So now I know what I should do...I just have to override my deeply ingrained- cheapness genes to pull the trigger.

Thanks guys!

-Chris

 

[passedpawn]

I did two 11g batches yesterday with this: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/240vac-toolbox-control-panel-pics-184296/

One PID, 30A ckt, no problem. Only one element at a time, but that is all I need for my process.

 

[rudy0498]

I did two 11g batches yesterday with this: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/240vac-toolbox-control-panel-pics-184296/

One PID, 30A ckt, no problem. Only one element at a time, but that is all I need for my process.

I saw your build, and thought about going this way. I don't really need both elements energized simultaneously, I just thought it would be faster to start heating the wort in the BK while still sparging. It probably wouldn't save me any more the 15-20 minutes....but at the time it made sense to me.

So what was your logic behind separate receptacles and SSRs vs. just swapping out plugs to the same receptacle and SSRs, if you are running off of the same PID?

 

[passedpawn]

So what was your logic behind separate receptacles and SSRs vs. just swapping out plugs to the same receptacle and SSRs, if you are running off of the same PID?

There really isn't a great reason. 1) just to see if it would work, 2) don't have to change plugs.

If I had 50A I would put 2 pids in there.

 

[SweetSounds]

I have a 50A circuit so tripping the breaker shouldn't be an issue. It is a 120V element.

Please don't hook a 120 volt element up to 240

I hate bad news...

 

[rudy0498]

There really isn't a great reason. 1) just to see if it would work, 2) don't have to change plugs.

If I had 50A I would put 2 pids in there.

I think that I am going to go with 2 PIDs just for the flexibility sake. I'll have to sell of some stuff to generate the $, but oh well.

Please don't hook a 120 volt element up to 240

I hate bad news...

lol, after reading back over the thread I could see how you might interpret that....I'm not an electrical engineer or anything, but I know that if I were to go with same PID/SSR, that I'd need to get a new HLT element.

Thanks for your concern though....

 

[SweetSounds]

I think that I am going to go with 2 PIDs just for the flexibility sake. I'll have to sell of some stuff to generate the $, but oh well.





lol, after reading back over the thread I could see how you might interpret that....I'm not an electrical engineer or anything, but I know that if I were to go with same PID/SSR, that I'd need to get a new HLT element.

Thanks for your concern though....

No worries! Just wanted to make sure any sparks you make are from feeding SWMBO your beer and not a 50 amp Chernobyl in your BK

 

[mattmauriello]

if you want independent control, and money is a concern, then I'd say a PID is a bit overkill for the BK. build or get a simple PWM (pulse width modulation) circuit for that element. probably drops the cost for that control to under $10. only drawback is that you can't read the temp on the BK, and you can't set it to 200 then ramp up to full when you're ready (i've seen some people like to do that during their lauter/sparge). Theres enough links around, like this one. pretty sure you can take the wire going to pin 1 on Q1, and have that be the + control on your SSR, and make the capacitor bigger to get a lower frequency (1Hz is more than appropriate for elements like this)

 

[passedpawn]

if you want independent control, and money is a concern, then I'd say a PID is a bit overkill for the BK. build or get a simple PWM (pulse width modulation) circuit for that element. probably drops the cost for that control to under $10. only drawback is that you can't read the temp on the BK, and you can't set it to 200 then ramp up to full when you're ready (i've seen some people like to do that during their lauter/sparge). Theres enough links around, like this one. pretty sure you can take the wire going to pin 1 on Q1, and have that be the + control on your SSR, and make the capacitor bigger to get a lower frequency (1Hz is more than appropriate for elements like this)

The other downside is you then need to add some way to read the temp when chilling. If you use a thrumomoter or similar on your chiller output then it doesn't matter.

 

[rudy0498]

The other downside is you then need to add some way to read the temp when chilling. If you use a thrumomoter or similar on your chiller output then it doesn't matter.

I use a counterflow chiller, so in BK temp monitoring really isn't a priority. BUT, I really want to be able to monitor the temp in both my HLT and MLT when mashing, so that is a little extra motivation to have 2 PIDs without having to spend money on an additional thermometer.

Thanks for everyone's input! I decided that I definitely don't want to go with the on/off controller for the HLT, and that the added flexibility going forward that I'll have with 2 PIDs is worth the extra $. I'll post a build thread when I get everything lined up.