Electric burners - Any builders out there?

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copyright1997

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You have read a roller coaster of my learning curve with electric :D On post 1 there are some link you can jump to relevant sections of my thread (FYI)

No problem! I have my drawings in visio, but I don't have them on hand this second. Did you want the drawings for one side or for the entire enclosure (both sides). Would you mind pming your email to me?

FYI - I ran through the wiring schematics and the final product with my brother in law (licensed union electrician). So while I am not an electrician the concepts on paper and in the box were reviewed by at least one (had help from a couple others on as well).

It is certainly a little more $$ to go with the two 30 amp gfi feeds. However that is mostly a factor of the 30 amp GFIs that you have to buy. Aside from that if you get your enclosure on ebay with that free shipping on other items deal... you really aren't spending a ton more money on hardware to get two simultaneously running elements (IMO obviously well worth it).

If you need help figuring out why I did what I did, feel free to ask and we can even chat via phone if that works better for you.
Cidah,

PM sent. Yes, I am hoping to bundle a bunch of stuff into the enclosure, and was likely going to go with the bigger enclosure to have room. My issue (mentioned in my PM) is that I already have a single 30 Amp 240VAC circuit into the intended room (my laundry room). All of this is tentative, I might just bite the bullet and have another circuit run, in which case I might go bigger. I also like the idea of redundant components, but am also toying with the idea of allowing (in addition to or in place of) a 120VAC source and having an additional 120VAC element in the HLT (or running the 5500 Watt 240VAC element at 1350 (1/4) from the 120VAC source).

I'm still at the beginning of this, but wanted to start to layout parts and prices (using your build as a model).


Hey, has anybody ever wired one of these suckers in so you can see how much power your brewery is consuming? :) http://www.renewcanada.com/digital_readout_ac_kwh_meter_240vac.html
 

yjfun

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Never put one on a brew system but I have put them in a couple of peoples houses when they converted them to duplexes. You can purchase them from just about any electrical supply house.
 

copyright1997

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Never put one on a brew system but I have put them in a couple of peoples houses when they converted them to duplexes. You can purchase them from just about any electrical supply house.
I was somewhat kidding (size wise), but I do like the idea of some sort of metering display.
 

yjfun

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I figured you weren't serious but it would look kinda cool stuck on the side of your controller.:)
 
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CidahMastah

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I figured you weren't serious but it would look kinda cool stuck on the side of your controller.:)
Also would be cool to quantify how much juice you used in the course of a brew session!
 
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CidahMastah

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I am planning on insulating my kettles as well as the MT for my eherms. wanted to check in with anybody that has done this so far.

I am looking at using these

Ultra-Flexible Foam Rubber Insulation

Temperature Range: Plain back: -295° to 220° F; Adhesive Back: 20° to 180° F
Heat Flow Rate (K-Factor) @ 75° F: 0.25
Density Range: 3-6 lbs./cu. ft.
Color: Black

Soft Buna-N/PVC foam creates an extremely flexible insulation sheet. The material is elastomeric and has a closed-cell construction for moisture resistance. Can be used outdoors if coated with latex paint (sold separately). Meets ASTM E84 25/50 for flame and smoke. Install plain-back insulation with contact adhesive (sold separately).

White latex paint is compliant under all state VOC rules in effect on November 1, 2011. Contact adhesive is compliant under all state VOC rules in effect on November 1, 2011.


But am not sure if I should go with 1/2 in or bump it up to 3/4, etc. ultimately I do want well insulated kettles all around so I can maximize the volumes that I am boiling in, etc. Any experience from you guys?

Plan was to get this and then use a contact adhesive to stick the foam to reflectix. This way I can remove the foam and get some shiny from the reflectix without damaging it. Wan planning on using velcro to attach and remove the insulation blanket.
 
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CidahMastah

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Some pictures of the rig and the armature! + pump shroud with pump installed.

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Ohio-Ed

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Looks good, but I do have a question.

What are your thoughts on how you will drain the pump when you're finished?

Ed
 

bruin_ale

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Looks good, but I do have a question.

What are your thoughts on how you will drain the pump when you're finished?

Ed
Good point, I didn't really notice the inlet curves.
While it may be slightly more convenient to hook up that way, a bunch of 90 degrees before the inlet isn't a great idea anyway - it can provide some input restriction that makes it harder to keep the pump primed.
 
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CidahMastah

CidahMastah

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Looks good, but I do have a question.

What are your thoughts on how you will drain the pump when you're finished?

Ed
right now the pumps sit on the rail but on not welded on. I could always switch the position of my camlock to be right after the first 90 bend from the pump inlet side. Good points guys. Have used the copper pump version for so long I forgot that I alwasy lift that pump and dump it. If we want to go perm. we will have to consider taht
 
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CidahMastah

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Starting to look pretty good Cidah let me know when you need those flakes!
Just did a rebrew on the partial system today - was awesome.... This rig is making brewing almost too easy! :D
 
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CidahMastah

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Good point, I didn't really notice the inlet curves.
While it may be slightly more convenient to hook up that way, a bunch of 90 degrees before the inlet isn't a great idea anyway - it can provide some input restriction that makes it harder to keep the pump primed.
just to let you guys know about the 90 degree bends, they worked great. I had read a lot about how they weren't ideal due to restriction, but I am convinced that is a myth based on yesterday's results. No cavitation issues even during the boil. I think what I may do is simply relocation the camlock, or keep the pumps free on the rig so I can lift them up to dump out excess water.
 
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CidahMastah

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A note to myself - R4.3 for 1'' of reflectix and the high temp wool. (will post some shots later of my uber insulated lids later).

So I bought some of the mcmaster 1'' thick high temp wool, 1/2 inch foam rubber, 3/4 inch foam rubber and heck I had to get some more reflectix to preserve shiny on a budget. Plan is to use:

HLT: (9349K3)3/4'' foam rubber + 3M contact adhesive 80 + reflectix

MT: 1'' high temp wool + 3M contact adhesive 80 + reflectix

BK: 9328K41(9349K2)1/2'' foam rubber + 3M contact adhesive 80 + reflectix

All the lids will get 1'' high temp wool backed with reflectix. This should protect the reflectix from early break down and also help increase the r value of the insulation that I am adding. I have already put the high temp wool on the lids and the foam rubber on the MT. Will be using those this weekend and with any luck some photos and some results. I have already brewed with just the lids done, and there was a noticeable difference.

Overall goal here will be to, eventually, test the capability for the 5500w elements to boil X volume in a well insulated pot.

The 3M 80 Spray works VERY well on the reflectix and foam rubber, will report back on the fiberglass to the reflectix. I tried to separate a test piece of the foam rubber and the reflectix and the foam rubber ripped instead of peeling. The adhesive has a heat tolerance of "over 200F", which it should never see since the foam rubber itself should never get that hot.

I wanted to try the various materials and see how they stack up against each other. The HLT and MT should be well insulated to help the mash and heat retention processes they support. Where the BK needs moderate insulation that is removable for chilling after a batch. I hope to accomplish this with hook and loop.

Fiberglass:
Pros - works really well. Has 1200operational temp. Probably all you would ever need for insulation value in a brewing situation. CHEAP!
Cons - needs to be sealed up so particles don't float into your brew. So you need to in the least buy reflectix, or flashing, etc. and seal it up with aluminum hvac tape. Might not stand up to add removal from the pot.

Foam Rubber:
Pros - Flexible and could be put on and taken off repeatedly with no wear issues, can stand up to required boiled temps (be in contact with kettle)
Cons - somewhat expensive (vs. fiberglass).

Jury is still out on how well it insulates... though I am sure it will work well, especially in the 3/4-1'' sizes.

Reflectix:
Pros - compact, water resistant, flexible, shiny, moderate cost. Good to use as a backer for foam rubber or fiberglass.
Cons -rated to no more than 180F operational use, will break down quickly over time.

UPDATE FROM TESTING
FINAL CONCLUSIONS:
1. For ebrewers, in general the foam rubber is the way to go (3/4''-1''). For my kettles the foam rubber in the 3/4'' size performed very well. I might consider going up to the 1'' inch for my MT when I replace the fiberglass. I do think at this point the insulation returns will be somewhat diminished as you increase in size after that (you get your best bang for buck with 3/4'' to 1'').

2. While the fiber glass works very well from an insulation perspective, it needs a lot of protection to stand up to the rigors of brewing, including an accidental puncture of the reflectix, etc. I would recommend using it for megapot style recessed lids at the most. Using it for the sidewall insulation is a PITA when compared to the ease of use/installation of the foam rubber.

Insulation.jpg
 
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CidahMastah

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I thought I should add my final layout (well sorta, there are still a few mods I am sure I will make). Let's call this the 95% version:

Some full shots of the rig that are pretty self explanatory. You can see in the last photo I have added a splash guard switch to control the stir motor and it's cooling fan as well as a switch for the ventilation hood.

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CidahMastah

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and some more:
Close ups of the stir motor/fan and vent hood switched along with views of the stir motor paddle, swing arm and herms coil set up.

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CidahMastah

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and a few more:
Mash Tun set up and vent hood. I found that I only need a vent hood for the BK and having a large one for the entire rig is not needed. I did add a weeping hole to the fan and a piece of plastic water line for an ice machine. It dispels any water that collects in the fan and pushes it out down to the drain.

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CidahMastah

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the last few shots:
here are shots of the 60 amp load center with two 30amp 2pole GFI breaks. I also ran the lines out in some conduit and made a splash guard to cover the outlets and protect them. I love rock climbing so the spalsh guard got an "ode to the gunks" look.

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CidahMastah

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Love the climber when ever my system gets done it goes into the room with my climbing wall! Climb On!
nice you are a climber too!? That is awesome, I thought I was the only person in the cuse with a climber wall on the premises :D
 

jeffb418

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nice you are a climber too!? That is awesome, I thought I was the only person in the cuse with a climber wall on the premises :D
I know of at-least 2 people in syracuse that have indoor climbing walls at home. One guy has it in his living room and its 2 stories tall.
 
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CidahMastah

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I wonder how many people know where the gunks are? I never climbed, but used to run there a lot for fall Marathon training when I lived in that area.
probably not very many :)


Well sounds like I need to get on some of their home walls to compare
 
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