Electric brewing wattage??? Dryer outlet.

[Tiber_Brew]

I do have an electric range as well.

So how quick will I get up to boiling with a 4500W element with 10 gallon AG batches?

I turn on the boil kettle when the element and probe are submerged in runoff, and it's boiling before the sparge is over. 4500W is plenty for 10 gal batches.

Having one in the HLT and one in the BK is not an issue since you wouldn't use them both at the same time anyway right?

You don't have to, however I do, and I love it. It's a really nice option if you have the available power to wire it that way.

TB

 

[Tiber_Brew]

Is there a way to test to be sure it is 50A?

It should say on the breaker in the service panel. Should read something like "RANGE 240V" on the sticker, and "30" or "50" on the breaker itself. Check if it's GFCI, too.

TB

 

[akthor]

I am in a 3 unit apt. building not even sure the breaker box is in MY basement. I will go look.

 

[IrregularPulse]

So I add a GFCI panel to my toolbox for safety? Is that ok? Or is it something different?

Is my process correct above? Can I brew like that turning the elements on and off as needed?

Like Bobby said above, 4500 will help you come to a boil in a goof amount of time, but will be overkill maintaining. You'll have a crazy boil with a lot of evaporation. Buy a PID with manual mode and a temp sensor. You can set to manual mode for the BK and once you reach boil turn the duty cycle down to ~%70. Unless you want to sit there for an hour and flip a switch on/off/on/off/on/off every half second and hope to keep a rhythm and maintain a boil. If you want to just turn on and off, then instead of doing a single 4500W element, you should just build to 2000W heat sticks. put them both in the boil, then once you come to a boil, unplug one and remove it. For the level of simplicty you're looking at, 2 2000W heat sticks sounds like your best option. Then as long as you have 20A outlets in your kitchen, you can just plug them into your standard outlets. Making sure each is a different circuit.

 

[Tiber_Brew]

Do I need a temp controller? Can't I turn the elements on and then off when it gets to temps? Using the themometers on the HLT and BK?

I am using the stove outlet which is 50A and is supposed to allow me to run 2 - 4500w elements at once right?

I really just want to do the electric in place of propane. Seems neater and cheaper. I don't need all the automation and digital doohickery if I don't have to have it.

What I imagine is this (simplified obviously):

Turn on HLT tank when temp gets to mashing temp turn off HLT and pump to MLT. Then turn on HLT and heat the sparge water. Pump wort from MLT to BK and then hook up pump to HLT to pump the sparge water into the MLT then hook up the pump to fly sparge. While fly sparging I start the BK. Then transfer the remaining wort to brew kettle. Do the boil. Hook up pump to whirlpool. Then pump (or gravity) into fermenter.

Two elements, one pump, two hoses with quick disconnects, quick disconnects for everything on the kegs.

My plan is to build a tool box type control box to hold the pump, have on/off switches for the elements and the pump and have the plug ins for the elements, and the extension cord from the stove. If I can't power the pump off the power coming from the stove then also the 120v plug in for the cord that will power the pump.

I know this is kind of hands on but I don't mind and I am trying to do it as cheaply and easily as possible. Is this possible or am I way off???

After reading this post here, I'm not so sure you should be starting this build quite yet. Sounds like you have a lot of research to do first. Not only about home electrical wiring, but about electrical components used by brewers. I really don't want to read about you in the paper being found fried to a crisp in your apartment.

I am in a 3 unit apt. building not even sure the breaker box is in MY basement. I will go look.

It is absolutely imperative that you know exactly what you're plugging into. Yes, please do check, and/or ask the superintendent to check/verify before you start building anything.

 

[IrregularPulse]

And make sure you have good renter's insurance for when you burn down the apartment complex

 

[akthor]

Can I just install two 2000w elements in my BK?

Also would having one in my HLT get it up to mashing temps ok?

The elements are dirt cheap so I'm good with putting 2 in the BK and 2 in the HLT wired to their own on/off switches. Then turning them on and off as neccessary. Especially if I can use normal 120v outlets. Seems it would solve a lot of headaches.

I don't know what a PID is or where to come by one. Is there a place to buy one all set up to like you say or do I need to buy all the parts and build one?

I admit I don't have a lot of understanding about the electrical stuff which is why I am trying to KISS it as much as possible. Once I know what I want I got a buddy who is an electrician and I will probably have him get all the parts (since he gets discounts) and put the controls together and make whatever cords I need. I will be installing the elements in the pots and the pump into the toolbox which will mean just attaching the wires as per what other more knowledgeable people will tell me.

I will not buy anything or build or plug in anything till it is safe and right.

Like Bobby said above, 4500 will help you come to a boil in a goof amount of time, but will be overkill maintaining. You'll have a crazy boil with a lot of evaporation. Buy a PID with manual mode and a temp sensor. You can set to manual mode for the BK and once you reach boil turn the duty cycle down to ~%70. Unless you want to sit there for an hour and flip a switch on/off/on/off/on/off every half second and hope to keep a rhythm and maintain a boil. If you want to just turn on and off, then instead of doing a single 4500W element, you should just build to 2000W heat sticks. put them both in the boil, then once you come to a boil, unplug one and remove it. For the level of simplicty you're looking at, 2 2000W heat sticks sounds like your best option. Then as long as you have 20A outlets in your kitchen, you can just plug them into your standard outlets. Making sure each is a different circuit.

 

[akthor]

Anybody?

 

[Yooper]

Anybody?

We'll given you plenty of good advice- the GFI is crucial, and doing it correctly is crucial. Talk to your electrician friend, as you don't seem to be understanding what we're telling you.

 

[IrregularPulse]

The KISS method would be to build 2 2000W heat sticks. Those can then be moved to each pot as needed. Just plug them in to outlets on separate 20A breakers.

 

[akthor]

Nope I understood but I asked some new questions.

We'll given you plenty of good advice- the GFI is crucial, and doing it correctly is crucial. Talk to your electrician friend, as you don't seem to be understanding what we're telling you.

 

[IrregularPulse]

Since you have an electrician friend, I would explain what you want to do, what your breaker limits are, and have him come up with a solution for you. I would really lean towards 2 2000W heat sticks though for what you want to do and the lack of equipment you want to buy. You wouldn't need anything besides the elements, the hardware for teh stick and the cord. No controllers or anything.

http://www.cedarcreeknetworks.com/heatstick.htm

 

[akthor]

True. But I don't like the idea or mess involved with heat sticks. I would just like to install them into the kegs.

So would one 2000w heat stick get the HLT water up to temp for mashing ok?.

So one in the HLT and two in BK. And one 2000w element per 120v plug in as long as they are on seperate breakers?

Can you run a pump and a 2000w element on the same 120v 20A outlet?

This seems easier (and cheaper) than messing with the 240v stove outlet.

The KISS method would be to build 2 2000W heat sticks. Those can then be moved to each pot as needed. Just plug them in to outlets on separate 20A breakers.

 

[IrregularPulse]

ye that will all work. The key being separate breakers for outlet you plug into. 2000 watts divided by 120v = 16.666 amps. 80 % of 20A is 16AMPs. You could probably get away with the pump on the same circuit, but if you hvae another circuit, you might as well use it for the pump.

I used a 1500W elemetn to heat 6G of water from 74-171. It worked, it just took an hour and a half

 

[jkarp]

The 80% rule only applies to multi-drop circuits. 100% is allowed on dedicated appliance circuits as in your kitchen.

 

[IrregularPulse]

The 80% rule only applies to multi-drop circuits. 100% is allowed on dedicated appliance circuits as in your kitchen.

Learn something new everyday. Thanks jkarp.

 

[Tiber_Brew]

The 80% rule only applies to multi-drop circuits. 100% is allowed on dedicated appliance circuits as in your kitchen.

True. This seems to be the most misunderstood code on HBT.

 

[Brewvy]

Consider buying a defribulator and training your wife how to use it.You could also try spending more time researching on the "electric brewing" forum.There is a ton of information from knowledgeable people there.From heatsticks to full automation wirelessly from your laptop.From what I read , it seems you should go with 120v ,and by all means mount them in your kettle.Put two in each kettle with switches.You must have 2 dedicated outlets rated for 20 amps with gfi protection.

 

[akthor]

So my apt. has no GFCI outlets. Must have been built before that code was required.

Can I install the GFCI outlets into the toolboox/control panel that I will plug the elements into? So cord from GFCI outlet in tool box plugs into the apt. 20A outlet. Then I plug the element into the 20A GFCI outlet on the tool box? Will this give me the GFCI protection?

http://www.homedepot.com/Electrical...splay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

My GF is a nurse BTW

I have been reading around but I can't re-wire my Apt. and I don't want a super complicated system. Hard to apply a lot of what I see to my situation.

Consider buying a defribulator and training your wife how to use it.You could also try spending more time researching on the "electric brewing" forum.There is a ton of information from knowledgeable people there.From heatsticks to full automation wirelessly from your laptop.From what I read , it seems you should go with 120v ,and by all means mount them in your kettle.Put two in each kettle with switches.You must have 2 dedicated outlets rated for 20 amps with gfi protection.

 

[akthor]

Or I can swap out the outlets for 20amp cfgi ones if it doesn't require any re-wiring. I have swapped outlets and switches before in my life, it's pretty basic. Not sure what all is involved in a CFGI outlet but if it uses the same wires that are already there it would be simple. Some have paint built up on them and are a POS to plug in anyways so I was thinking of swapping them anyways for new ones.

 

[Bobby_M]

The simple way to handle this is to first find out if there are actually two 20amp circuits accessible in the room where you want to brew. I assume this is the kitchen. They have to be served off of 20a breakers in the panel and you should also verify that the wire going into those outlets are 12 gauge. You can compare 14 and 12 gauge wires by going to Lowes/Depot and just snipping a 1/2" off the spool hanging there. 12 is bigger.

If you make two 2000watt/120v heat sticks, you have the advantage of using both in the HLT to get to strike temp, then when it's time to boil, move them both over to get to boil quickly. Then you can remove one of them once you have a boil going. That same flexibility would require installing 2 elements into each vessel.

You can replace existing non GFI outlets as long as there is a distinct black, white and bare conductor in the box.

The reason the stove outlet is attractive is that you know for sure that it's capable of 240v/50a. However, it's not going to be cheap because you'll have to buy a Nema 50R plug, a GFCI spa panel, etc.

 

[ClaudiusB]

You don't want to draw more than 80% (standard rule).

My opinion is, as long there is a 20A or 50A fuse in my load center I can draw that current.
No rule exist telling me I can't do it.
Should we apply that rule to our 120 V circuit too?
We can not expect any home owner to get test equipment to check if they are close to the 80% limit.
Designing a load center is a different story.



Cheers,
ClaudiusB