Electric Brewery - Supply Line Sanity Check

[Bobby_M]

I basically know electricity. I mean, I'm a few credits short of an EE degree that I'll never complete. You know, it's the practical application of all the theory that is sometimes head scratching.

Anyway, I now have a 200amp service so adding elements and control to my brewery is a natural goal. I also bought a MIG welder. For now my goal is to install a big supply circuit about 15 feet down my garage wall to where the brewery will sit. In the short term I'll be using it for the welder until I get my brewery plans together.

Let me know if I go wrong somewhere.

50a breaker in the main panel.
6/3 romex + ground (good for 55a from what I can tell)
Home Depot 50a spa panel with GFCI breaker at remote location.

Now, I was planning to put something like a NEMA 14-50R in a 4" box directly under the spa panel for supply to the brewstand to support both 240v and 120v devices.

The welder pulls a max of 21 amps but it makes sense to put a 14-50P on the supply to the welder just so I don't have to splice in for a separate receptacle right? I just wouldn't make use of the neutral in that case.

Slightly related, but would you prefer to drill a series of 3/4" holes in the studs (about 10 of them) of a garage wall for a 6/3 romex run or would you just pop out and run some 8g THHN in some EMT with surface mount metal boxes? I also want to run a few 120v/20a receptacles down the same wall and I'm thinking about 3/4" EMT. I have to check the NEC to see if I can put 3 x 8awg, 3 x 12awg and a bare #10 in and still make the max fill.

This crap is confusing.

 

[lschiavo]

Looks good to me. I am planning and have quite a bit done similarly in my garage. I used conduit and #8 to feed my controller. I fed directly in but the receptacle would be a good dual purpose solution.

I checked my code book...the wire you mentioned should put you at about 80% fill for 3/4 conduit and is exactly what I pulled in mine.

 

[lmerg]

We followed a similar plan with our arc welder: running 50amp service even if the welder will probably never pull that much. We used 6/3 and pulled it through 3/4" plastic tubing along the garage wall. We installed an outlet to match the plug, a dryer cord from Lowe's -- I don't think that matters until you start adding water. Obviously, you're thinking about the requirements of a potential electric brewery, not the welder.

Regarding the outlets along the line, we decided to install a dedicated line for the welder, running a second 20amp line for the air compressor.

I'm not much help. I dropped out a few credits *in* to my EE degree.

 

[jfkriege]

I just did a similar setup.

I have a 50A breaker going out to the Spa Panel using 6/3 with Ground. Directly below the Spa Panel (joined with the same type 6/3) I have a 14-50R range outlet. This feeds the brewery and a friends welder when needed.

My electrician ran it through the wall, and then I ran all of my 120V circuits through the wall. Make sure you put up nail plates before the drywall goes up. You would not want to drive a nail into something capable of 12kW.

You are going to feed the 120V outlets from a dedicated 12/2 120V circuit, correct? I am not sure what code says, but this is what I have done, and it just seems a little better to me.

I preferred having everything through the wall, but I was redoing all of the drywall and insulation anyway. It is a lot cleaner with everything hidden.

 

[Bobby_M]

I was actually planning on running a 6/4 SJ cord set to the brewery so I could tap off a 120v for the march pump and control panel. There's been a lot of threads debating whether this is possible with a GFCI but as far as I know, that's exactly what a 4-wire spa panel is about. I suppose a dedicated 120v run would leave me a little more headroom, but not much.

I need a bunch of 120v outlets in the garage anyway so I may actually go with two runs of 12/2 while I have the wall open since I run a compressor often.

The area is already drywalled, but I planned to remove a horizontal strip to blow in some insulation anyway. I also found a guy selling some 6/3 romex w/ground for $1.25 a foot. Can't beat that. Check on the metal plates to protect the wire.

 

[jfkriege]

I am running SO cord from the wall to the brewery as well. It makes it a whole lot easier. You can certainly draw 120 off of this, and I do it every time I turn on one of my pumps or the PID. This is going through a 50A Spa Panel. If you are talking about powering brewery components, then run it all from the 6/4 cord to the brewery.

I thought you were talking about putting an outlet in the wall off of the 240V line, and that is what I was questioning. I have two 120V power circuits in my brewery (one on each long wall), and have outlets every 4 ft. I then have a separate circuit for the lights as well. I would do it all again.

$1.25 a foot is a pretty good price. Take him up on that. The metal plates are available at any hardware store.

So, what kind of brewery is this going to power? I have a pair of modified brutus 20s that I run all electric. They are in my signature. To switch back to gas would mean I just bought a 5bbl system (and even then I would think about electric), or it was the only way I could ever brew again. I just love the control and ease. Brewing indoors all winter is nice as well.

 

[pickles]

I do exactly what your talking about and it works great. I have three 240V heating elements, two 120V march pumps, 120V brewtroller, and a 120V outlet mounted in my brewrig's power panel since it's GFCI protected.

 

[Bobby_M]

Ok, sounds good to me.

Brewery plans? No idea yet. Probably just a retrofit of my current system but replacing the direct fire heat on the MLT to RIMs tube. I'm thinking of dual 5500 watt elements in the HLT where one of them is dedicated and the other is disabled during brew kettle usage.

 

[jfkriege]

A retrofit sounds like a good plan. From there you can tweak the design as you please.

I would shy away from a pair of 5500W elements. Having both of them on would put you at 92% of total electrical capacity, and I think the general rule is to not exceed 80% of capacity. If you bump this down to a pair of 4500W elements then you are good at 75% and have a little headroom for pumps.

4500W will still get 15 gallons up to mash in temps in 40 minutes. My brewery is getting built up to 2x 4500W elements after I rebuild the control box, but I am in no hurry after doing a 10 gallon batch in 4.5 hours and not minding the very few short bits of waiting. For 5 gallon batches the water (7-8 gallons) heats as fast as I can crush the grain and get everything else together. Just some information as you plan your build...

 

[AiredAle]

I would go with surface mounted EMT because it will be easier to modify next year when you have some great improvement to your garage/system that requires different wiring. Plus, I think EMT and boxes look way cooler than boring old outlets covers on sheetrock.

 

[lschiavo]

I would go with surface mounted EMT because it will be easier to modify next year when you have some great improvement to your garage/system that requires different wiring. Plus, I think EMT and boxes look way cooler than boring old outlets covers on sheetrock.

I agree. Exposed EMT/boxes (if installed neatly) look "commercial" which IMO fits nicely in a brewery. Adding more circuits or just another outlet is much more simple also. If you oversize your feed conduit from you panel it is also quite easy to pull in another circuit or two if needed in the future.

 

[Bobby_M]

Ok, another quick one for you guys. Since my welder is 21amp, and would you believe only has 14awg on its cordset, I thought putting a 14-50P on the end of it would be a little overkill. I think I might go with an L6-30P on the welder cord, put a L6-30R in a box near the spa panel, and then make up a 20 foot L6-30 based extension cord out of 10/3 SJ in case I need to weld up an exhaust in the driveway.

1. Do you think it's a really bad idea to mount a 14-50R receptacle or this L6-30R into the spa panel's faceplate? That box has tons of room to the right of the breaker with plenty of cubic footage. I just don't know if it's code or not. The rainproof cover won't be needed in my garage.

2. Do you think my SJ cord should just have an extra 14-50P on it so that it ensures the brewery and welder won't be used at the same time?

 

[lschiavo]

1. Technically it is not legal to install a receptacle in a listed enclosure not specifically intended for it. An RV panel may be worth considering however I do not believe they are GFI protected for the 50A receptacle.

2. If your cable is rated for the breaker, worst case you will trip it.

 

[Bobby_M]

Yeah, skipping that idea. I just picked up a surface mount 14-50 receptacle that can just sit under the spa panel.

 

[lschiavo]

If you haven't seen these, they are a great way to connect a receptacle or junction box to the panel. The knockouts seldom line up and this easily solves the problem.

Offset Nipple:

 

[Bobby_M]

Yup, I did pick one up. Thanks.