eKettle stuck at 199F

[sennister]

I agree. A coworker is bringing me a multimeter tomorrow to use, and I'll compare the elements tonight. I might even test the ripple one as well.

Thanks! :rockin:

Might be worth picking up one. They are really handy to have. You don't need a high end one. While I have a $500 Fluke, many times I find I grab my cheap Harbor Freight Multimeter that I got for free.

Sure it isn't as accurate and doesn't have the features but for a quick measurement where accuracy isn't the critical it works fine.

 

[BadWolfBrewing]

Is your 240 circuit actually 240? Mine is 208, which sucks. I'm feed by 3 phase, so line to line is 208.

That means my elements only put out 75 percent of rated power. I can still boil the crap out of 6 gallons though.

Curious to see what you find, this is a head scratcher.

 

[dougp]

Is your 240 circuit actually 240? Mine is 208, which sucks. I'm feed by 3 phase, so line to line is 208.

That means my elements only put out 75 percent of rated power. I can still boil the crap out of 6 gallons though.

Curious to see what you find, this is a head scratcher.

Good question - guess I'll find out when I get my multimeter. Should be in tomorrow.

 

[dyqik]

It's this one - http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001RD7MK0/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Is there any way I can check fro a safety thermal cut? I assumed it was just like the squiggly one, I don't use that one because my false bottom can't sit flat with it.

No, that one doesn't have a cut out - I wasn't expecting one on anything like the normal elements that people use, but you never know what someone found and tried to use...

 

[dougp]

No, that one doesn't have a cut out - I wasn't expecting one on anything like the normal elements that people use, but you never know what someone found and tried to use...

Apparently, at some point, Camco sent the wrong elements to Amazon and they were being shipped out. You'd only notice in certain situations, but apparently it was fixed by the time I ordered mine, but you never know.

 

[dougp]

Tried another element tonight - look like it's the socket in the wall. I thought he had tested it, but I don't remember. I'll test tomorrow w/ the multimeter.

 

[cgherrington3]

sounds like your only getting one leg of power.

 

[wilserbrewer]

sounds like your only getting one leg of power.

Yea, just guessing that is about what 2750 watts would do with 6 gallons?

 

[BadWolfBrewing]

That sounds reasonable. Once the liquid and pot get up to 200, the power you are adding is equal to the power loss, and so there's no more power left to raise the temperature.

Contrary to what is normally posted about required power for a brew kettle, there is more to boiling than raising the temperature to 212 degs. The actual act of converting liquid to steam itself requires power, on top of the power required to maintain 212 degs.

Quick note about the electrical power in your situation. If the outlet is wired wrong, and one of the hot legs is actually neutral, you are only supplying 120V instead of 240V. The power is proportional to the square of the voltage, meaning you are only getting 5500/4 W, or 1375 W. That seems reasonable, considering your results. Check the outlet. Between the two hots, you should measure somewhere around 240 RMS.

 

[dougp]

Well, I just got my multimeter and I checked the new element, and it's reading 10.7 ohms. When I get home, I'm going to check my cable, and I'll also check the outlet. I'll check outlet to see if I'm getting 240v, is there any way to check wattage directly or do I only rely on the voltage?

 

[mattd2]

That sounds reasonable. Once the liquid and pot get up to 200, the power you are adding is equal to the power loss, and so there's no more power left to raise the temperature.

Contrary to what is normally posted about required power for a brew kettle, there is more to boiling than raising the temperature to 212 degs. The actual act of converting liquid to steam itself requires power, on top of the power required to maintain 212 degs.

Quick note about the electrical power in your situation. If the outlet is wired wrong, and one of the hot legs is actually neutral, you are only supplying 120V instead of 240V. The power is proportional to the square of the voltage, meaning you are only getting 5500/4 W, or 1375 W. That seems reasonable, considering your results. Check the outlet. Between the two hots, you should measure somewhere around 240 RMS.

I was about to suggest the same - check the wiring that there hasn't been a cross over in your control box for the element swapping one hot for the nuetral.

 

[cgherrington3]

965 btu to change 1 pound of water to 1 pound of steam. It's only 1 btu to raise 1 pound of water 1 degree Farhenheit.

 

[dougp]

I was about to suggest the same - check the wiring that there hasn't been a cross over in your control box for the element swapping one hot for the nuetral.

Coming out of my control panel, we're measuring 240v on my "dumb" meter, which I use mostly to make sure there's no power when I need to work on something. I'm starting to think there's an issue with the 10-3 cable to my element.

 

[cgherrington3]

watcha got at the element?

 

[BadWolfBrewing]

I'm really wondering what the problem is now.

 

[dougp]

I'm really wondering what the problem is now.

Me too. We'll find out shortly when I get home. My electrician friend will be home next week so we can troubleshoot more. I'll keep everyone up to date.

 

[dougp]

Ohms, volts, everything looks great. I found the issue with the wall outlet direct to element - I was only running 110v, but that still doesn't explain the issue going through the control panel. But I found some water in my element connection box so I'm going to wait until it dries to test more - won't be able to do anything until next week.

 

[Bobby_M]

The only way I can figure to use my bare element enclosure with a soldered in welding spud is to make the seal between the element threads and spud with teflon tape rather than a gasket. The only thing you'd use the gasket for is to space the enclosure away from the spud if the threads mesh too soon for direct spud to enclosure contact.

 

[mattd2]

Ohms, volts, everything looks great. I found the issue with the wall outlet direct to element - I was only running 110v, but that still doesn't explain the issue going through the control panel. But I found some water in my element connection box so I'm going to wait until it dries to test more - won't be able to do anything until next week.

Huh? That post just confused me - when did the wall outlets come into the picture? I know someone mentioned to check it straight in the wall but you said you couldn't????
Do you have a wiring diagram?

 

[Epimetheus]

Out of the control panel you measured 240V but at the wall outlet you measured 110V? That is not making sense. Either it was wired wrong, measured wrong, or described oddly.

Contrary to what is normally posted about required power for a brew kettle, there is more to boiling than raising the temperature to 212 degs. The actual act of converting liquid to steam itself requires power, on top of the power required to maintain 212 degs.

Exactly! If the electrical parts are working correctly and it still will not boil, I have one word for you:

Lots of insulation

 

[dougp]

Huh? That post just confused me - when did the wall outlets come into the picture? I know someone mentioned to check it straight in the wall but you said you couldn't????
Do you have a wiring diagram?

It came into the picture when I plugged directly in, I said that earlier. As mentioned, I wired directly to the wall incorrectly.

Out of the control panel you measured 240V but at the wall outlet you measured 110V? That is not making sense. Either it was wired wrong, measured wrong, or described oddly.

Exactly! If the electrical parts are working correctly and it still will not boil, I have one word for you:

Lots of insulation

I'll test more on Sunday, but I should be able to get a boil out of the wall - the control panel is another question but I'm reading 240v out of it, so no idea what's going on.

 

[BadWolfBrewing]

thats 3 words

insulation or not, 5.5kW would boil the crap out of 6 gallons. I have a 5.5 kW element on a 208 circuit, so its only supplying 75% of rated power. In a giant stainless stout-tanks brew kettle with no insulation, I can still boil the crap out of 6g. I mean VIOLENT boil.

Please double check the following, when you get a chance.

Voltage between 2 hot legs at the heating element is 240V, with the PID in 100% mode. The resistance between the 2 hot legs is somewhere around 10.5 ohms.

Be careful when checking hot wires... also, if you are getting water in your enclosure box, that needs to be fixed ASAP.

 

[processhead]

Measuring only the voltage going to the element can sometimes be misleading.

To get the complete picture on the element, ask if your electrician if he can loan you a clamp on ammeter.

To develop the element's rated 5500 watts of power you should measure 240 volts and ~22 amps.

 

[dougp]

So, some update.

The electrician friend brought over an amp-clamp and we did some testing - the element is only drawing half the expected amperage of a 5500w element. We couldn't figure out where, but it looks like the SSR is only outputting HALF of what's going in for voltage. We're not sure if it's the PID, but no amount of adjusting the output on it will increase the load, only lower it. He's bringing a spare SSR tomorrow to see if that's the issue, if not, I'll have to engage Auber in getting a replacement - if that's possible, given how old it is. Anyone have some ideas/input?

 

[mattd2]

So, some update.

The electrician friend brought over an amp-clamp and we did some testing - the element is only drawing half the expected amperage of a 5500w element. We couldn't figure out where, but it looks like the SSR is only outputting HALF of what's going in for voltage. We're not sure if it's the PID, but no amount of adjusting the output on it will increase the load, only lower it. He's bringing a spare SSR tomorrow to see if that's the issue, if not, I'll have to engage Auber in getting a replacement - if that's possible, given how old it is. Anyone have some ideas/input?

Was thinking maybe a dc ssr, but don't know if that would show up with 1/2 the current with ac or if it would just blow up.
It really seems like the element is only getting 120vac (which is what you are saying with the half-output?). Can you post the wiring diagram as that would be the first thing to check.
Also what exactly do you mean by the ssr is only outputting half the input? Does anything change if you remove the ssr and tie the two wires it was switching together, I.e. the time to boil / strength improve? If it does something is deffinately up with that ssr.

 

[dtetreault]

Was thinking maybe a dc ssr, but don't know if that would show up with 1/2 the current with ac or if it would just blow up.
It really seems like the element is only getting 120vac (which is what you are saying with the half-output?). Can you post the wiring diagram as that would be the first thing to check.
Also what exactly do you mean by the ssr is only outputting half the input? Does anything change if you remove the ssr and tie the two wires it was switching together, I.e. the time to boil / strength improve? If it does something is deffinately up with that ssr.

Looks like the SSR is only passing one half of each AC cycle.

 

[processhead]

You can disconnect the two power leads from the SSR and temporarily connect those wires to each other.
This effectively bypasses the SSR and should deliver full power to the element when you power up the system.
This test will either confirm or rule out a defective SSR.

 

[dougp]

You can disconnect the two power leads from the SSR and temporarily connect those wires to each other.
This effectively bypasses the SSR and should deliver full power to the element when you power up the system.
This test will either confirm or rule out a defective SSR.

But this won't tell me if the problem is the SSR or the PID, correct?

 

[Bobby_M]

Sure it will. The PID can't tell the SSR anything but turn on or turn off.

 

[dougp]

Sure it will. The PID can't tell the SSR anything but turn on or turn off.

So I disconnect the two leads coming from the PID and twist them together to test the SSR?