Efficiency Issues - UPDATED

[capt_yo55arian]

How long did you sparge for? On my three vessel system we aim to sparge a 5 gallon batch slowly over 40 minutes or so. For my single vessel system, I just bump up the grain bill a bit…

Do you use recipe software? If not, I recommend it. Figure out your efficiency and plug that into your profile and don’t worry about the extra couple $$ of grain you will need to buy every batch.

Let us know how the batch tastes when it is done as that is what really matters!

Sparged for about 20-30 min using the 3 gallons of water... I do use Beersmith but I've been hesitant to commit to an efficiency since my previous BIABs were on the low end, and this one was completely off.

Previously I was getting high 60s to low 70s using the Anvil malt pipe before I switched to BIAB. I made the switch because of the stuck mashes which were a constant pain. I love the simplicity of and ease of use with BIAB , I just need to dial in my process.

Will def let you know how the batch comes out! It's chugging away in the fermenter this morning, so bright side, beer was made lol

 

[capt_yo55arian]

The flaw in the OP's scenario described is the failure to check the mash pH.

I was thinking about this too. My PH meter is unreliable so what I usually do is plug in the recipe using Beersmith and then use the Brew N Water model for lactic acid addition. I did not do that this time, just kind of winged it since using filtered tap water (my idea was that this was going to be a low cost, no frills common). Probably a compounded mistake in addition to the grain crush.

 

[Bobby_M]

The biggest factor in mash efficiency is the quality of the grain milling. You and the LHBS have conflicting goals. Your goal is to make good beer with the least amount of grain while the LHBS has a goal to make the most money possible without irritating customers. That means that the LHBS will mill the grain too coarse so that people don't get a stuck mash which then means that their mash efficiency is low so the LHBS gets to sell more grain.

As as a LHBS owner, I want to take issue with this statement. My goal is to give customers the exactly kind of crush they want. I'm not saying there isn't a very small portion of owners that could possibly think the way you're suggesting, but I have my doubts. I'd say the reason for disappointing crushing would be more attributable to a worn out mill, a mill setup that's difficult to adjust on the fly, or the constant battle between fine enough for good efficiency but coarse enough to avoid a stuck runoff.

 

[Bobby_M]

Sparged for about 20-30 min using the 3 gallons of water... I do use Beersmith but I've been hesitant to commit to an efficiency since my previous BIABs were on the low end, and this one was completely off.

Previously I was getting high 60s to low 70s using the Anvil malt pipe before I switched to BIAB. I made the switch because of the stuck mashes which were a constant pain. I love the simplicity of and ease of use with BIAB , I just need to dial in my process.

Will def let you know how the batch comes out! It's chugging away in the fermenter this morning, so bright side, beer was made lol

Are you keeping some area of liquid mash below the bag or are you allowing the bag to sit flat on the bottom?

 

[capt_yo55arian]

Are you keeping some area of liquid mash below the bag or are you allowing the bag to sit flat on the bottom?

Hey Bobby.. bought all my QDs from you and locline! Love them all.

Yea I got a brewzilla false bottom I rigged to fit an inch or so above the anvil valve.

 

[RM-MN]

As as a LHBS owner, I want to take issue with this statement. My goal is to give customers the exactly kind of crush they want. I'm not saying there isn't a very small portion of owners that could possibly think the way you're suggesting, but I have my doubts. I'd say the reason for disappointing crushing would be more attributable to a worn out mill, a mill setup that's difficult to adjust on the fly, or the constant battle between fine enough for good efficiency but coarse enough to avoid a stuck runoff.

Suppose you serve 100 customers a day. Do you adjust the mill different for every one or do you choose a reasonable compromise and crush that, perhaps adjusting 2-5 times a day? At some point, crushing differently for each customer cost you money as it takes time. I desire the finest crush you can possibly make. The next customer would complain if you forgot to adjust the mill differently as they would have an impossibly stuck mash with a conventional mash tun. How many times can that happen?

 

[soccerdad]

I have a.Corona style mill and highly recommended it. You could also try an over night mash. I know that scares some folks, but it needn't.

 

[Bobby_M]

Suppose you serve 100 customers a day. Do you adjust the mill different for every one or do you choose a reasonable compromise and crush that, perhaps adjusting 2-5 times a day?

I set my mill for every customer one at a time exactly how I'd like to be treated if it were my grain order. We don't forget to set it to the desired crush EVER. Hell, we fill some orders where each grain batch has a different mill setting because they will brew one on a 3 vessel and another on a BIAB.

We have two standard mill options to select from, "normal for false bottoms" which is .030" and "extra fine for BIAB" which is about .018". Those two settings are indexed on the mill adjustor knobs and the lock/unlock function is done with T-bolts and are easily done by hand. I even accommodate people who request "please mill as fine as possible" and I will push the adjustor to the point where the rollers touch and then back off by .002". On the other side of the spectrum, some customers say good lauter speed is more important than efficiency and I'll dial it in to about .038" and verify it's not leaving any whole kernels.

When we were extremely busy, I roll in my extra Monster Mill and set each of the mills to each of the standard settings so that it's less likely that we have to adjust (unless a custom request) and we can mill batches simultaneously. We're not currently needing that configuration because our walk in hours are limited and we can better allot labor resources in the grain room over the entire day for the pickups.

Extra time? When someone fills out a grain order sheet in the store and neglects to select a particular crush setting we go find them in the store and ask rather than just eyeball it.

At some point, crushing differently for each customer cost you money as it takes time.

Well, running a business costs money. It's like saying, carrying liquid yeast is a huge hassle and there's a bunch of spoilage so only sell dry yeast? No. I wouldn't shop at a LHBS like that so I'm not going to run it half-assed.

 

[Protos]

In my experience, I noted that extraction efficiency decreases along with the aging of the grain.
Today I repeated a brew I made exactly a year before, same single-malt recipe and same batch of malt. All other variables being equal, I got 5% less extraction than the last year.
You might want to try to brew a batch with a grain you're absolutely sure is fresh. It might be, the low efficiency is not your fault.

 

[capt_yo55arian]

In my experience, I noted that extraction efficiency decreases along with the aging of the grain.
Today I repeated a brew I made exactly a year before, same single-malt recipe and same batch of malt. All other variables being equal, I got 5% less extraction than the last year.
You might want to try to brew a batch with a grain you're absolutely sure is fresh. It might be, the low efficiency is not your fault.

Interesting. Something to look at in addition to crush.

 

[Protos]

Today, trying to compensate for the grain aging (it wasn't very fresh even a year ago) I intentionally milled the malt extremely fine, almost to flour. I hoped it would give me the same if not better extraction. No way, the extraction turned out to be lower. From which I conclude that the age of the grain was a more important factor than the crush size.

I use a Corona mill. Buy one, you'll have the full control over your milling. Me, f.ex., I always crush base malts and Crystals in different sizes (I prefer my Crystals milled finer) and even different brands of the same type of malt often require different gap setting: for instance, Scandinavian Pilsner malts are much plumpier than French Pilsner malts so the mill must be set accordingly. No LHBS would account for such subtle nuances if I didn't have my own mill.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

I set my mill for every customer one at a time exactly how I'd like to be treated if it were my grain order. We don't forget to set it to the desired crush EVER. Hell, we fill some orders where each grain batch has a different mill setting because they will brew one on a 3 vessel and another on a BIAB.

It would be nice if this was the norm. Every in-person shop I have been to has a mill at a fixed setting. One local shop has a sign saying to not run the grain through twice with some BS about it jamming up the mill. I guess that is a step up from when I first started shopping there 20-ish years ago when they just had a mill in the back and you had to call in if you wanted your base grain milled (they also sold 10# bags of pre-milled grain).

It was the inconsistencies between crush at local stores and online that pushed me to get my own mill. Now if I started over again with a $400 budget, I would advocate $100 of that toward a mill, especially since I moved to BIAB.