Edworts haus pale ale tastes a bit bland

[Tomokka]

Hey,

I have tried to brew edworts haus pale ale now twice, both times no chill biab. I made some adjustments to the recipe when it came to hop additions, because of the no chill, but otherwise I followed the recipe.

The first try was quite interesting, since my OG was 1,076 and FG 1,013. It was a tasty brew but only got like 10 liters out of it. Now i have done it a second time and on paper it was perfect: OG at 1,052 and finished at 1,011. Probably the mash temperature was off a few degrees but nothing major.

The problem i have is that the brew is quite bland. The beer has very little body and not enough hop flavor to make up for it. It also has kind of a weird aftertaste that i cant really describe. The aftertaste isnt very strong, but its still there. I was wondering is there something that i am doing wrong that could explain these short comings or is it just a case of a recipe thats not my cup of tea?

 

[masonsjax]

I would recommend bringing some of your beer to a local brew club meeting or an LHBS maybe to get opinions from some experienced brewers that could help you find the source of your problems. There are dozens of variables that affect the outcome and without tasting it, we'd all just be guessing.

 

[JonM]

The first thing that comes to mind is water chemistry. A mash pH that is too high or low can make a beer seem dull or bland, and the wrong mix of minerals in water can affect flavor too.

 

[brick_haus]

I brew this recipe VERBATIM on a regular basis. I find it to be exactly as designed/described. Quaffable and well liked by the masses. I wouldnt call it bland, but it isnt designed to be a flavor bomb.
Occasionally I will throw a couple ounces of pellet hops into the keg. This helps hop up the flavor a bit. Everyone seems to like this beer.

 

[Clonefan94]

I brew this recipe VERBATIM on a regular basis. I find it to be exactly as designed/described. Quaffable and well liked by the masses. I wouldnt call it bland, but it isnt designed to be a flavor bomb.
Occasionally I will throw a couple ounces of pellet hops into the keg. This helps hop up the flavor a bit. Everyone seems to like this beer.

These were my thoughts as well. It's not meant to be a borderline IPA. It's more on the easy drinking side. It's a big visitor favorite at my house.

I mean there could be other issues that are causing you problems as far as mouthfeel and the aftertaste you describe. Maybe it's from the no chill or if your fermentation is off a little bit.

I brewed this once with an US-05 I let get a little too cold and it left a little peachy aftertaste in there.

This is a pretty clean beer over all, that will probably show any issues in the brewing process more than something full of hops. When I've brewed this well, it's a great beer.

 

[Tomokka]

Will definately have to check the water chemistry thing. Hopefully there is somekind of report to be found out about it. I cant really afford to start buying water from a store since where i come from is really expensive.

Besides the water report should i buy like ph-strips and some other measurement thingies to check that the water is good for brewing?

 

[masonsjax]

Get your water tested firstly. That will tell you what your starting point is and whether you can use your water or will need to dilute it, treat it, or use other water entirely.

Look up Ward Labs, print out the homebrewer form and send it in a small flat-rate shipping box with a slightly flattened water bottle filled with your tap water. In a few days you'll get a report emailed to you with an invoice. It's very easy and worth it. Download Brunwater, or choose another water calculation program and punch in your numbers and a recipe to see how it suggests treating your water. Post here or in the science forum if you're not sure what to make of the report or need help with software.

 

[GotPushrods]

I like it so much that this is the grain bill I use for all new hop experiments. It is a simple yet excellent base. Low clean bitterness, awesome malt middle, and perfect lingering dryness with around 50-80 ppm sulfate.

I would recommend re-brewing at least until you can get it the same twice. You may be surprised how differently they turn out. It is a good lesson of the impact the brewer makes on a recipe. Can't think of a better recipe to use.

 

[Tomokka]

Get your water tested firstly. That will tell you what your starting point is and whether you can use your water or will need to dilute it, treat it, or use other water entirely.

Look up Ward Labs, print out the homebrewer form and send it in a small flat-rate shipping box with a slightly flattened water bottle filled with your tap water. In a few days you'll get a report emailed to you with an invoice. It's very easy and worth it. Download Brunwater, or choose another water calculation program and punch in your numbers and a recipe to see how it suggests treating your water. Post here or in the science forum if you're not sure what to make of the report or need help with software.

Does the water need to be tested in a laboratory? Cant i just call the water company and order a report? I live in Finland and we pride our selfs on the quality of our tap water so i hope they would have some info about it at the water company.

 

[Tomokka]

I found the following report at the website that monitors the water quality in my area. I am not sure if you guys can get anything out of it, since its in Finnish, but are there some measurements i should pay special attention to in finding out if the water is good enough?

 

[safcraft]

Old thread, similar issue here.

I brewed the Haus Pale twice, both with same strange aftertaste.
First i thought i got some problem with mash PH, or some KEG problem cleaning.
Second one i took very attention to PH (5.3) and bought new Cascade Leaf Hops.
This one seems better (more clean, very very clear beer ) BUT the same after taste is there. It is not STRONG, i thought i could be green beer, 1 month in bottles reveals the flavor faded a litle but still there.

I would describe the aftertaste as "grassy" or "herbal". I thought Cascade was supposed to be a citric hop. I do not like the flavor...i can drink the beer but do not love it.

Could it be my PH meter is misscalibrated and i am doing the same mistake over and over ? My efficiency is hitting 80% to 90% (brewhouse) so if PH was off, i am sure the efficiency would suffer....

Don't know...many brewers say this is a quaffable and easy beer.
My friends also note this aftertaste....and do not love it.

 

[marc1]

Old thread, similar issue here.

I brewed the Haus Pale twice, both with same strange aftertaste.
First i thought i got some problem with mash PH, or some KEG problem cleaning.
Second one i took very attention to PH (5.3) and bought new Cascade Leaf Hops.
This one seems better (more clean, very very clear beer ) BUT the same after taste is there. It is not STRONG, i thought i could be green beer, 1 month in bottles reveals the flavor faded a litle but still there.

I would describe the aftertaste as "grassy" or "herbal". I thought Cascade was supposed to be a citric hop. I do not like the flavor...i can drink the beer but do not love it.

Could it be my PH meter is misscalibrated and i am doing the same mistake over and over ? My efficiency is hitting 80% to 90% (brewhouse) so if PH was off, i am sure the efficiency would suffer....

Don't know...many brewers say this is a quaffable and easy beer.
My friends also note this aftertaste....and do not love it.

It could be a few things.
Hops are an agricultural product. Some lots are going to be different from others depending on the growing conditions, harvest, packaging, and storage. How did they smell? Have you used cascade before and liked it?

Your pH meter should ideally be calibrated every time you use it. If you are wondering if it is miscalibrated put it back in the calibration solutions and see what it reads.

Also check your water composition. What's the profile? Possibly your source water changed? Have you tried RO or distilled plus salts and acid?

There's a ton of info on pH and water chemistry in the brew science section of the forum. If this is new to you check out the threads there. There are very knowledgeable members that are very helpful

 

[safcraft]

It could be a few things.
Hops are an agricultural product. Some lots are going to be different from others depending on the growing conditions, harvest, packaging, and storage. How did they smell? Have you used cascade before and liked it?

Your pH meter should ideally be calibrated every time you use it. If you are wondering if it is miscalibrated put it back in the calibration solutions and see what it reads.

Also check your water composition. What's the profile? Possibly your source water changed? Have you tried RO or distilled plus salts and acid?

There's a ton of info on pH and water chemistry in the brew science section of the forum. If this is new to you check out the threads there. There are very knowledgeable members that are very helpful

Never used Cascade ALONE before, so don't know if i am tasting something i dont like. I have used it combined with other hops. This is Cascade only. My hops were fresh pellets, in a vaccum sealed package and looked fine and smelled fine (like hops, very green).

PH calibration solution is on its way. I will see if there is an error in mine.

My water is pretty soft and very stable througout the year. The water company keeps 3month water reports available online and they are pretty much the same with litle carbonate change. I use Brun water sheet to make adjustments and normally do not stress about it. Also, other beers have just been fine, i only complain about blandness on this one...

I dont know if PH being off affects more than efficiency. Like i said my efficiency numbers usually fall in the 80% range.

 

[brew703]

I've brewed this a couple times and didnt really care for it. I too found a weird taste. I keep my ph in check, usually between 5.2-5.6, mostly at 5.4. I use distilled water and build up for the style. I think with this being a quaffable beer it picks up flavors that we may not notice when brewing a more flavorful, hoppy beer. When i changed up the hop schedule, the flavor improved for me. I dont brew it anymore because my wife doesnt care for it and i wanted her to get away from the crappy ultra she drinks.

 

[safcraft]

I've brewed this a couple times and didnt really care for it. I too found a weird taste. I keep my ph in check, usually between 5.2-5.6, mostly at 5.4. I use distilled water and build up for the style. I think with this being a quaffable beer it picks up flavors that we may not notice when brewing a more flavorful, hoppy beer. When i changed up the hop schedule, the flavor improved for me. I dont brew it anymore because my wife doesnt care for it and i wanted her to get away from the crappy ultra she drinks.

Can i ask what you mean when you say " changed the hop schedule" ?
What do you brew for a "quafable " beer ?
I am looking for a simple and enjoyable brew that may be brewed as an Ale.
I can make Lager's that i like, but it takes time.
I still dont know of a recipe for Ale, that satisfys me ...

I too think that when brewing Red Ales, Bocks, Wheat beers, Belgians....there is much more in the recipe to mask flavors .

 

[brew703]

First off, i'm not a huge fan of Cascade as a single hop.
The last time i brewed this, i split the two row in half and used maris otter for the difference.
For hops, i like Simcoe so i only did a bittering charge with Cascade and eliminated the 30 and 15 min additions.
Used simcoe at 10 and 0 and a 5 day dry hop.
It was much better.

 

[mattdee1]

I brewed that recipe for Christmas last year and it was pretty good. But I don't think there's anything singular about it; it's pretty much "easy drinking pale ale by numbers" and anybody with a bit of experience creating recipes should be able to throw together a similar recipe on the spot and get results of similar quality.

I guess what I'm saying is, the "Haus Pale Ale" is a testament to the benefits of keeping things simple when the goal is to produce a simple (i.e., easy-drinking and approachable) result.

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

I made this once and it was Blah, Its from 2007...old school minimal homebrew beer. Things have changed a lot since then....not to mention anything under 1.060 is not worth brewing

 

[balrog]

This is an approachable beer, but as said above it is not a flavor bomb. I prefer to go far maltier and do Yooper's Haus Pale which uses significant Vienna & Munich in the grist to bring much more malty bready toasty. I also find using leaf Cascade instead of pellets at the end makes it brighter tasting. Then again, it could be the different lots of leaf and pellet. But Yooper's is a much bigger maltier flavor and not as approachable by those who dislike homebrew IMHO.

 

[bolus14]

I think the last two replies sum this up. First it's intent is to be a simple, sessionable, straight forward brew. I would say in the last 5 yrs many have migrated towards wanting hops, hops, and more hops, either to get more bitterness or added later in the boil/flameout/whirlpool/dryhop (NEIPA style) and have gone away from simple and straightforward. This recipe isn't intended to be a flavor bomb, really bitter, or extremely fruity...

As for Cascade, I've never been a fan, mixed with others or on it's own, more or less feel the same about all the major "C" hops. If it only makes up a small percentage of the total hops it might be ok, but for my palate it sticks out like a sore thumb. I get mostly grapefruit, which I'm not a fan of in any form, juice, whole fruit, or hops, sometimes I can also pick up a certain "vegetal" note from it. I don't know how best to explain that flavor, to me it's not grassy, not herbal, but something plant like grown from the grown... yes bad explanation, sorry.

I prefer a the "new world" hops and have good luck simply swapping out "C" hops with some of these newer hops and just try to match the AA's. I think many of these older recipes used what was available, Cascade, Centennial, Columbus, Chinook, which as I said for me is loads of grapefruit juice, rind, and pine. I have found El Dorado, Motueka, Pacifica, Pacific Gem, can be used a swap for recipes like this.