Educate my Palate - A question of flavors and how to identify them.

[Fauxsho]

I am coming close to my first equipment purchase and eventually, my first brew day. However, my palate is so uneducated as far as homebrew is concerned that I have no idea what I want to brew for my first batch or (technically speaking) what it is about certain beers that I like and dislike.

Is there some sort of online database that provides comparisons, flavor profiles, and characteristics of beer (that someone as green as me would understand) that would better help me identify what I like in certain beers and what I don't?

The IBU charts don't really help me that much but I do understand them. There are certain beers that I enjoy with a level of bitterness while there are others that I do not.

This will also help me try new and different beers at my LHBS to sort of get a grasp on what I like and what I don't without having to be afraid of wasting money on something I'm not going to enjoy. My LHBS is a little expensive and I was a little disappointed in my last purchase.

Any feedback will be greatly appreciated, thanks in advance.

Cheers.

 

[dross2]

I would go to your local beer store and pick up 2 or 3 singles of a style or two you think you proably like and get a kit from your LHBS that mimicks that style. batches. You could also start with a few batches with lower hop profiles like wheat beers. That's pretty much what I did for more first few. I'm with you though, sometimes I enjoy a certain hoppy beer and dislike another equally hoppy but different beer so I'm still experimenting to figure out how I like to hop my homebrew.

 

[duboman]

http://www.bjcp.org/docs/2008_Guidelines.pdf

I would download this and give it a read. This is a list of the different beer style guidelines and contains all flavor profiles, typical ingredients of style and selected production examples of the given style. It is a great resource for learning about the different styles of beer.

I refer to this all the time when creating recipes and looking to achieve certain characteristics with my beer.

Welcome to the hobby an the forum! Cheers!

 

[AmandaK]

http://www.bjcp.org/docs/2008_Guidelines.pdf

I would download this and give it a read. This is a list of the different beer style guidelines and contains all flavor profiles, typical ingredients of style and selected production examples of the given style. It is a great resource for learning about the different styles of beer.

I refer to this all the time when creating recipes and looking to achieve certain characteristics with my beer.

While this document is very, very useful (I use it all the time too), it can seem a bit daunting at first. The best way to read through it quickly is to read the "Overall Impression" first, if you like the overall, read the rest. If not, move on. Not everyone likes a Flanders Red.

 

[dbhokie]

I would go to your local beer store and pick up 2 or 3 singles of a style or two you think you proably like and get a kit from your LHBS that mimicks that style. batches. You could also start with a few batches with lower hop profiles like wheat beers. That's pretty much what I did for more first few. I'm with you though, sometimes I enjoy a certain hoppy beer and dislike another equally hoppy but different beer so I'm still experimenting to figure out how I like to hop my homebrew.

Great advice here, if you are completely new, and don' t reconcile the terms to the tastes yet, reading may not even help that much. You still have a bunch of terms you have no corresponding taste idea in your head for. Go pick up a few varied brews, sip them slowly and evaluate them. It doesn't matter whether you can pick out every aspect of the brew like some beer judge, pick the one you like the best and ask your LHBS owner to help you craft a recipe along the same profile.

 

[TyTanium]

Just start brewing. You'll figure out what you like along the way.

 

[Calichusetts]

Go find your favorite beers online that the brewer's website...they will list their ingredients and this will help get you started

 

[homebrewdad]

Another vote for trying different commercial beers, then brewing something in the same style that you enjoy.

If you have a store that allows it, try building a "make your own" six pack. This gives you a great chance to sample different types of beer. Get a brown ale, an amber ale, an IPA, a wheat beer, etc - then get a homwbrew kit of a similar style.

Keep sampling different styles, as well as different beers in the same style... there are TONS of different IPAs, for instance.

 

[Fauxsho]

Thanks for all of the replies. I didn't even think of the "build your own six-pack" thing, good idea. I downloaded the BJCP guidelines as well.

Looks like I have some drinking to do!

Cheers.

 

[dbhokie]

Thanks for all of the replies. I didn't even think of the "build your own six-pack" thing, good idea. I downloaded the BJCP guidelines as well.

Looks like I have some drinking to do!

Cheers.

Try to get very different styles, that may help you discern the differences as well, and really put you more in the ballpark of what you really like. Getting a beer you hate isn't a bad thing, it is an experience.

 

[uncleben113]

I read a lot of reviews on ratebeer. It's a public website where people review beers and some do it very well. People describe flavors and aromas (amongst other things) of tons of beers. I've learned a lot from this site and it also helps me distinguish good beers from not-so-good beers when I'm looking for something new.

This can give you an idea on a beer to beer basis of what you may like or dislike.

Cheers!

 

[homebrewdad]

Try to get very different styles, that may help you discern the differences as well, and really put you more in the ballpark of what you really like. Getting a beer you hate isn't a bad thing, it is an experience.

Agreed. I personaly have yet to find an IPA that I like... I keep trying, but I'm apparently not grown up enough yet to truly appreciate hop assaults.

One of my samples was a Yeti Imperial Stout (Great Divide Brewing Company). This thing gets a 94 rating from the public, and an 89 from "the bros" at BeerAdvocate.com. I was excited to score this!

It was all I could do to drink the bottle. I felt like the smoke and the bitterness just bashed me over the head. Either I got a bad bottle, or this one is just not to my taste... am I ever glad that I didn't go for a full six pack of it.

However, I have discovered quite a few really good beers by doing this. I pretty much never buy a full sixer of anything anymore, I love the variety of this method.

 

[Tinga]

I do informal beer classes for friends and stuff. I usually put together a six pack with the following beers. I tell them about the brewing process before i get into the different beers. then as i present the beers one at a time i'll talk about the breweries, the ingredients and how most people describe the taste. this is the six pack I do and most of these beers should be easy to find.

Full Sail Brewery - Amber Ale
New Belgium Brewery - Ranger IPA
Sierra Nevada Brewery - Pale Ale
Sierra Nevada Brewery - Kellerweis Hefeweizen
A stout of some sort. I do a local one that I like.
and then I choose a weird beer like a sour or a fruit or something just completely out there.

I think these well represent good american ales (minus the kellerweis) so if you like english or german beers then you may need to revise this a bit.

 

[txaggie]

Agreed. I personaly have yet to find an IPA that I like... I keep trying, but I'm apparently not grown up enough yet to truly appreciate hop assaults.

One of my samples was a Yeti Imperial Stout (Great Divide Brewing Company). This thing gets a 94 rating from the public, and an 89 from "the bros" at BeerAdvocate.com. I was excited to score this!

It was all I could do to drink the bottle. I felt like the smoke and the bitterness just bashed me over the head. Either I got a bad bottle, or this one is just not to my taste... am I ever glad that I didn't go for a full six pack of it.

However, I have discovered quite a few really good beers by doing this. I pretty much never buy a full sixer of anything anymore, I love the variety of this method.

I can completely relate. I've sat around with friends, they were drinking some crazy hoppy IPA, and everyone was drooling over it b/c it was so good. It was all I could do to choke it down.

I've honestly gotten better at drinking Hop Bomb beers after drinking several of them, but the beauty of beer is to each his own. I have gotten familiar enough with brew styles now that I can appreciate a beer just b/c I better understand how they put some of the flavors in there vs the actual taste of it.

To the OP, try a lot of beer, figure out what it is you like and don't like, and don't forget to try different brands of any style b/c they are all different. A Pale Ale or Amber ale might be a good place to start, since they're pretty neutral beers in my opinion.

 

[homebrewdad]

I can completely relate. I've sat around with friends, they were drinking some crazy hoppy IPA, and everyone was drooling over it b/c it was so good. It was all I could do to choke it down.

I've honestly gotten better at drinking Hop Bomb beers after drinking several of them, but the beauty of beer is to each his own. I have gotten familiar enough with brew styles now that I can appreciate a beer just b/c I better understand how they put some of the flavors in there vs the actual taste of it.

To the OP, try a lot of beer, figure out what it is you like and don't like, and don't forget to try different brands of any style b/c they are all different. A Pale Ale or Amber ale might be a good place to start, since they're pretty neutral beers in my opinion.

Agreed wholeheartedly. I'm a brown ale guy, so give me balance, perhaps a bit malt forward. Bitterness is nice, but not for the sake of seeing how insanely bitter a beer can be.

To me.

 

[dbhokie]

It is refreshing to see that others have a hard time with real hoppy beers, people give me crap..I appreciate them..I just don't prefer them.

I have noticed recently that the longer I sip on one, the more accustomed my palate becomes to it, and it becomes more digestible (to me), but in the end you should go for something you enjoy from start to finish, and just try to appreciate or discern the things you don't like in the ones you don't.

I honestly wasn't able to characterize the IBU level of beers until I started brewing, I didn't understand enough about what contributed to those bitter, biting tones that I tasted, I just didn't know what they were.

I wish more bars (like some), would actually offer IBU ratings, along with ABV, and body on their draughts it would make it easire with customers if they explained to them, to get a beer they really like.

Oh, you don't like a bitter beer at all, but you like something sweet? Perhaps you should try this Dubbel we have here, it is low in IBUs, and quite malty.

Lately around here anyways, 80% of everything on tap in bars that have many taps is IPA, or very hoppy beers that might as well be classified as such. My friends love them, I take the opportunity to taste the flavors the hops add and try to ignore some of the bitterness.

We recently dry hopped an imperial ale with Citra hops. It gave a very very strong grapefruit, (some would describe sour), citric taste. That's good for me to know in the future, how strong the citrus comes out with that type of hop. I may love it when I am not throwing in 3 or more oz of other hops.

It comes slowly, take heart, experiment, enjoy the ride!

 

[mychalg9]

I would recommend signing up on beeradvocate.com and reading some reviews. You can search beers you like and read what people have said about them. It can also show you different beers that you may like based on beers you already like, based on the style of beer. This site was extremely useful to me in identifying different flavors in all the beers I was drinking. After a while you will notice flavors you havent noticed before or couldnt identify. It is free to sign up.

 

[homebrewdad]

I would recommend signing up on beeradvocate.com and reading some reviews. You can search beers you like and read what people have said about them. It can also show you different beers that you may like based on beers you already like, based on the style of beer. This site was extremely useful to me in identifying different flavors in all the beers I was drinking. After a while you will notice flavors you havent noticed before or couldnt identify. It is free to sign up.

For that matter, you don't have to sign up to search and read reviews. Great site.

 

[ChickenArise]

Kind of a tangent, but http://drinks.seriouseats.com/2012/04/coffee-cupping-aroma-what-coffee-smells-like.html has some good notes on the palate.

 

[jwplessner]

If you have any local breweries, visit and order flights. Don't be embarassed to ask questions. People who love beer usually love to talk about it, too.

 

[Fauxsho]

Thanks a lot guys. All this has been really helpful. I'm sure I will have more questions in the future, but in the meantime, cheers!

 

[Tiredboy]

Your results may vary but I've found that IBUs can be misleading (to my novice palate). I've tried IPAs that are at the low end and they seem bitter and some that are at the high end that are really balanced (and seem less bitter). Maybe I don't understand IBUs!

As for beers changing their taste as you drink them, I suppose it depends on how much you are drinking. I have a beer I brewed that the first mouthful is not great but after that it tastes delicious (its hard to explain the contrast but its huge). On the other hand I managed to get a bottle of Bourbon County Coffee and the first mouthful was spectacular but after a few it became heavy and a bit too sweet (so i drank it in small samples over a couple of days and really enjoyed it).

 

[strambo]

I've tried IPAs that are at the low end and they seem bitter and some that are at the high end that are really balanced (and seem less bitter). Maybe I don't understand IBUs!

There are a couple things that can be going on. 1st, beers with higher ABV need more IBUs to balance them, my RIS has 60 IBUs but doesn't taste bitter. 2nd, hops with lower cohumulone levels will taste less harsh than ones with higher cohumulone even if they are at the same alpha acid level.

If 2 IPAs are the exact same IBUs and ABV, the different perception of bitterness will be due to the difference in the hop characteristics. That's my fairly newbie understanding at least.

 

[kapbrew13]

Buy a bunch of different beers and try to reproduce during your brewing. Later change the recipe to bring out the flavors/profiles of the beer you like.
Since starting brewing, I've expanded my taste and try new beers all the time.

 

[jbaysurfer]

There are a couple things that can be going on. 1st, beers with higher ABV need more IBUs to balance them, my RIS has 60 IBUs but doesn't taste bitter. 2nd, hops with lower cohumulone levels will taste less harsh than ones with higher cohumulone even if they are at the same alpha acid level.

If 2 IPAs are the exact same IBUs and ABV, the different perception of bitterness will be due to the difference in the hop characteristics. That's my fairly newbie understanding at least.

I think this is a pretty good explanation. Furthermore, when it comes to brewing, what I've realized is that if the mash was a lower temperature, the beer will ferment out cleaner and leave the IBUs more pronounced then a beer that has a little residual malt to it. I have an IPA that I mashed at 148 or below and I did a side by side tasting of it with Stone's Ruination, and my beer was hunanimously judged to be the more bitter of the two. In the future I'll fix this by increasing the mash temp a bit (to get some of the longer chain amino acids that don't ferment as cleanly, or as readily), and/or use a yeast that doesn't ferment as cleanly. Lastly, if you like a really dry clean finish on an IPA, you can move your hop additions forward in the boil so that you're getting more of the hop flavor without too much bitterness.

Brewing has completely changed my perceptions when tasting beer. Most commercial micro/craft brewers have their processes dialed, so when you make an error or two in your homebrewing, it's easy to figure out where you went wrong/where your process differs from the pros.

 

[Fauxsho]

I took the advice of some of the previous replies and put together a build-your-own six pack today. I chose 5 different styles and a chocolate stout for SWMBO to try since I skipped over the IPA's. (If you can show me one I'll enjoy on the first one instead of the 6th, hats off to you)

I went with some breweries I was already familiar with, including my favorite local brewery, just to try and get a grasp of the different styles. I might go out of my comfort zone next time around. But here's what I came up with:

Sierra Nevada Kellerweis
Sierra Nevada Porter
Sierra Nevada Stout
Fort Collins Brewery Chocolate Stout
Flying Dog Doggie Style Classic Pale Ale
Natty Greene's Old Town Brown Ale (Local)

I haven't tried the FCB Chocolate Stout since that's SWMBO territory, and she threatened to kill me. As for the others, I enjoyed them all. My favorites being the brown ale and the porter. However, my palate is having trouble identifying the differences between the stout, (which seemed more bitter than the others) the porter (slightly bitter and creamy which I enjoyed), and the brown ale (which I thought was delicious) But they all seemed so close in comparison. What separates these three types of beer styles?

The Kellerweis was refreshing and citrusy, something I would really enjoy after mowing the grass, while the Doggie Style PA seemed sort of flat on a carbonation level, but still somewhat light and refreshing yet lacking something - Probably my least favorite out of the bunch.

For my next build-your-own six pack I'd like some suggestions as to my preference with the Stout, porter, and brown ale. And anything else I might have skipped over in my haste to get home and do some "research"

Thanks again, guys. All of this has been so helpful and fun at the same time.

Cheers.

EDIT: Got permission to try the FCB chocolate stout from SWMBO, pretty similar to the Sierra Nevada Stout, possibly more bitter. It's good, but nothing that's outstanding. It's growing on me though.

 

[mychalg9]

Nicely done, OP! Believe it or not, not many people will actually step that far outside their comfort zone so easily, so my hat is off to you. I'd recommend going to beeradvocate and reading up on the different styles: http://beeradvocate.com/beer/style . Stouts and porters are difficult to differentiate at first, but with a little time you'll be able to tell with your eyes closed. As for the pale ale, I personally find them to be hit or miss, usually depending on the hop varieties are used in the beer. Basically my point is don't judge the style (or any style) by one or two individual beers. As for recommendations, (I don't know what is available in your area though): Founders Porter, Duck Rabbit Baltic Porter, Avery Out of Bounds Stout (the first stout that clicked with me), Dogfish Head Indian Brown Ale (an interesting mix of Brown, Scotch, and India Pale ales). But really my suggestion is just to try as many beers as you can of the style(s) you like. The more you drink, the better you'll get at picking out flavors. And read reviews on beeradvocate as you drink as this will speed things up exponentially.

 

[dross2]

Old Rasputin Imperial Stout and Breckenridge Vanilla Porter are a couple of my favorites

 

[azmark]

If you are liking porters try Anchors porter, it is wonderful. I'd also try a few IPAs justto show the difference in these brews. You just might find one you like. They very wildly. I'd reccomend Big Sky IPA, Firestone, Deschutes as a few that have plenty of hops but are much more drinkabe brews.

 

[brewski08]

i don't think there is a difference between a stout and a porter nowadays other than their history:

http://www.beerconnoisseur.com/porter-versus-stout

i certainly can't tell the difference between a stout and a porter unless i previously tried them.

however, i think there is a HUGE difference between brown ales and stouts/porters. whenever i drink a brown ale, i usually pick up on a nutty sweetness. i feel that there are more roasted/toasted/burnt notes in a stout/porter, and there are more sweet/nutty notes in a brown ale.


didn't read the entire thread so not sure if anyone has mentioned yet, but try a Guinness (DUH!). no matter how many different beers i try, Guinness draught has always remained one of my favorites. i'm also thrilled you can find it pretty much anywhere.

it looks like you have a good selection for beer based off your picture, so i would try finding a Smuttynose old brown dog ale or a Sam Smith's nut brown ale. compare one of those guys next to your Guinness, and i bet you'd notice a difference between stouts and brown ales. if not available, try a Newcastle.