ECY20 and virtually no acid?

[Qhrumphf]

Anyone else had a problem with the ECY20 from early 2015 not really souring?

I saw something on Reddit after google searching that suggests I'm not alone here.

I brewed three beers early last year (February), an Oud Bruin, a Flemish Pale Ale, and a Session Kriek, all with ECY20.

The yeast/bug blend ripped through the gravity very rapidly, all around 1.001 as of September of '15. However, all but no acid. I just sampled them again thinking maybe it was a time issue, and very little progression whatsoever. They all taste alright, but the slightest tartness and zero funk. Even the Wyeast/White Labs sour cultures seem to produce more funk/acid in this timeline, and I was super excited to get my hands on East Coast Yeast as I've heard repeatedly that the sour blends are second to none, but this is leaving me with a very sour taste in my mouth *rimshot*.

Anyone else had this issue?

 

[secondbase]

I didn't get much souring in the first 8 months, but the pH has dropped to 3.3ish (don't have my notes in front of me) and is starting to taste pretty good. Brewed in January 2015. Maybe you could draw off a gallon and add some fruit and then top up the main batch with some fresh wort to let the bugs go crazy and encourage some extra souring.

 

[chefchris]

Used some back in Feb on a Flanders Red. Tasted it 2 days ago and it was pretty good. I noticed tartness pretty early on. It doesn't seem overly tart or funky but I'm happy with it.

Edit: What was your IBU? Mine was 10 Tinseth.

 

[505-Brewer]

What was everyones mash temp? Seems like if its ripping through the sugars fast w /out souring maybe the mash temp needs to be higher or mash grain profile needs more dextrins or such. Just speculation. pH 3.3 is plenty low and nearing if not at needing blending.

My vials arrived yesterday so I'll be doing a lambic type beer mashing at 158-160F. I'll post up how sour it gets.

My vials are dated October 2015 and were from l2brew in January. View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1452957166.867092.jpg

 

[Qhrumphf]

My mashes were all at 158. The Oud Bruin had a significant amount of specialty grains including crystal malts (and the other two less so but still some). IBUs for the Kriek were ~8 and the other two ~15-20. Neither factor has shown a difference.

 

[Bassaholic]

I brewed two batches with my vial of ecy20 from Dec 2014 and have only checked the flavor on my first batch, a Flanders red. I wouldn't say no acid, but it's certainly less acidic than I had hoped. The Brett flavor is there and some definite cherry flavors. That one is just over a year old and I just added oak to age for a few more months. The second brew was a lambic that I racked onto some of the cake left over from the red so I would expect that to be more sour. That one is only at 10 months so I'll check the flavor soon and report back. But I mashed high with both of these beers and used adjuncts to ensure starches for the bugs. The IBUs were around 12 for the red and I used aged hops for the lambic.

 

[505-Brewer]

Guess the blend is brett heavy. I can pitch other dregs but I want to see how it tastes at 3, 6 and possibly 9 months before doing so. Brewing 10-12 gal pale wort tomorrow. I think I'll use 1 vial for 5-6 gal and 1/2 vial for the other 5-6 with no additional yeast.

At what point are folks harvesting dregs for bugs n brett? Figure I should keep some going.

 

[secondbase]

I mashed at 158. IBU ~10

 

[Qhrumphf]

Guess the blend is brett heavy. I can pitch other dregs but I want to see how it tastes at 3, 6 and possibly 9 months before doing so. Brewing 10-12 gal pale wort tomorrow. I think I'll use 1 vial for 5-6 gal and 1/2 vial for the other 5-6 with no additional yeast.

At what point are folks harvesting dregs for bugs n brett? Figure I should keep some going.

I wouldn't even say that. I'm used to getting some defined Brett character at this point, I'm not even getting that. More of a fruity phenolic Belgian character. I'm wondering if there wasn't just a super-attenuating and super-fast working Sacch strain (or maybe Brett, but not something I've gotten from Brett before) in there that was able to dominate and rob food for all the other bugs.

Glad to hear that others are at least getting something of similar experiences.

 

[505-Brewer]

Brewed my "Lambic" today. Basically used a riff on the Rare Barrel Golden Grain bill. Used raw spelt instead of malted and mash hopped w 2 oz 2012 Cascade from my buddies back yard. Milky wort for sure. Pitch 125mL into one carboy and 75 mL into another. O2 blast through stone for 2 min. They're sitting in the den somewhere around 64. I'll start ramping them up slowly. Im guessing fermenting on warm side should help the acidity too. Time will tell.

 

[DisturbdChemist]

The ECY20 i got hasnt soured for me. I'm going to sample it tonight and see how it is. i havent been happy with any of the commercial sour bugs. Bottle dreges on the other hand work out great.

 

[spenghali]

Sounds like this could be attributed to the IBUs of everyone's wort

 

[505-Brewer]

Update: good airlock activity and Krausen observed at 24h (did not check at 12h). Carboy w larger pitch has larger Krausen. Smells like a bready neutral ale yeast w no real aromatics or esters.

 

[505-Brewer]

Still going. A bit more fruity out of the airlock. Sorta belgian-ish in aroma. Will give it another week then chk gravity and pH out of curiosity.

How far in are folks waiting to harvest the slurry?

 

[secondbase]

How far in are folks waiting to harvest the slurry?

Mine is still sitting on the cake of my 2014 and 2015 Bug County beers.

 

[505-Brewer]

Haha. Yeah Im sure thats fine. Too be honest I dont really need to harvest the dregs but thought I could share the wealth with some friends if I did.

 

[Bassaholic]

So I just samples my other batch that used the cake from my first sour with 2014 Bug County and there is also very little acid with this one as well. It's going on 11 months and there is some really nice Brett character, but that's about it. I'm going to add sour dregs dregs to both these batches and see where that takes me in a few months. I am also thinking about adding fruit to at least a portion of both batches so that might boost the acidity in combination with the dregs. I'll keep you guys updated on any progress.

 

[505-Brewer]

Im def gonna add some dregs sooner than later on this one (well atleast one of them). Still have 1.5 vials left. Need to figure out what to use them on. Maybe stout, porter or revisit the Consecration clone.......

 

[505-Brewer]

Sampled both today. brewed Jan 18th. Mashed 158-160 w a lot of oats, wheat, spelt etc. pH 3.0 on both!!!. Gravity 1.010-1.012 or so on both. Very drinkable. Amazing pineapple and grapefruit. If I had a beer to blend it with I'd keg half of it now! The one I pitched 1/2 vial has more complexity and is better but both very good. Will do the next batch at maybe 5 ibus to see how that goes im thinking folks are using too many ibus. So good. These beers could use blending back and fruit. Theyre that tasty (and clearly sour).

 

[vahunter1819]

just got my first vial of ECY20 about a week ago and gonna use it early next month. My question is oxygen. Ive read conflicting things. Should i aerate using my stone? or do a simple shake? i though when using this blend we werent supposed to aerate. Thanks in advance guys!

 

[505-Brewer]

I just checked my notes since I couldn't remember. I dosed w pure O2 for 2 mins before pitching. Figured the blend is mostly brett and sacc so that should help those grow up. Still shocked at how fast it soured. Absolutely no acetic character in my beer. Would do the same again w no hesitation.

I bet it would do fine no O2 but might be slightly diff 't in flavor. I'll try that on half the batch next time.

 

[Qhrumphf]

Well, while racking my (now actually) Kriek over onto cherries, taste showed significantly more acid than it did when I posted this a month and a half ago. Appreciably sour and more of what I would expect. I guess it really did just need a little more time.

 

[505-Brewer]

Well, while racking my (now actually) Kriek over onto cherries, taste showed significantly more acid than it did when I posted this a month and a half ago. Appreciably sour and more of what I would expect. I guess it really did just need a little more time.

Hey thats excellent. Good news. Where did you source the cherries? I have sone canned Oregon Fruit sour cherries and can find some in the freezer section. Not quite ready to fruit but just curious.

 

[Qhrumphf]

Hey thats excellent. Good news. Where did you source the cherries? I have sone canned Oregon Fruit sour cherries and can find some in the freezer section. Not quite ready to fruit but just curious.

I used Oregon Fruit canned sour cherries for my Brett Kriek last year, and was underwhelmed, especially considering the cost. I got twice the cherries cheaper (albeit not sour cherries, but in this case I don't think it'll matter too much, any sugar will be consumed over the next year anyway) from the freezer section of Trader Joe's.

 

[505-Brewer]

I used Oregon Fruit canned sour cherries for my Brett Kriek last year, and was underwhelmed, especially considering the cost. I got twice the cherries cheaper (albeit not sour cherries, but in this case I don't think it'll matter too much, any sugar will be consumed over the next year anyway) from the freezer section of Trader Joe's.

Ah cool. I have some OF canned cherries but have yet to use them. Im thinking costco frozen cherries may be the way to go. I think they have tart ones. I'll try both. I also have gooseberries , blackberries, plums and boysenberries from Oregon fruit but they are all in syrup, perfect for some saisons I suppose.

 

[secondbase]

The 2015 blend seems to be more aggressive on the souring. My sour stout, brewed in November, is at pH 3.35.

 

[505-Brewer]

The 2015 blend seems to be more aggressive on the souring. My sour stout, brewed in November, is at pH 3.35.

Must be! Extremely tasty so far? Any thought of adding oak or are you going to leave as is?

 

[secondbase]

Must be! Extremely tasty so far? Any thought of adding oak or are you going to leave as is?

Taste is pretty straight forward right now. Mostly sour with hints of caramel, toffee and chocolate from the malts. A little stone fruit, but I'm excited to see how it progresses.
I plan on adding oak at about six months. It's soaking in some oat whiskey right now.

 

[bizoneill]

I have one going right now that's been in primary for about a month and its all fruit forward with a slight tartness. Tastes great... Just moved that to secondary and put a new batch on to the cake of the first batch. Wondering if i should add dregs now or wait it out for a few months.

 

[505-Brewer]

I have one going right now that's been in primary for about a month and its all fruit forward with a slight tartness. Tastes great... Just moved that to secondary and put a new batch on to the cake of the first batch. Wondering if i should add dregs now or wait it out for a few months.

How many ibus was the wort? Mine soured so fast. Want to dial it back sone for next batch. Probably Tart of Darkness clone.......