Easy Stove-Top Pasteurizing - With Pics

[Pappers_]

I always thought you would use chemicals to keep it still and stabilize it (as in wine production) before going into bottles with corks. Never thought about using pasteurization to substitute this process.

You can't stabilize it if its in mid-fermentation (still semi-dry or semi-sweet). The yeast will just keep on going. You could ferment to dry, rack, stabilize, then back sweeten. There would be no need for pasteurizing then.

 

[Pickled_Pepper]

You can't stabilize it if its in mid-fermentation (still semi-dry or semi-sweet). The yeast will just keep on going. You could ferment to dry, rack, stabilize, then back sweeten. There would be no need for pasteurizing then.

Thanks Pappers, that was my point. I didn't think you'd want to put corks on something that wasn't completely done with fermentation.

 

[ACbrewer]

I always thought you would use chemicals to keep it still and stabilize it (as in wine production) before going into bottles with corks. Never thought about using pasteurization to substitute this process.

Why not? That's how BMC sell their beer - they run it through heat tunnels to pasturize it - see ma no chemicals. I'm not sure that it would work well with corks, but I'm not sure it would be impossible - although if it is already still, and done, then the question becomes 'why pasturize.' And the only answer I ahve is to reduce sulfites and sorbates in your diet, although, the alcohol is probably as bad, and there is sorbate in soda. And sulfer in just about everything we eat

 

[Pickled_Pepper]

Why not? That's how BMC sell their beer

Don't they also force carb their beer instead of letting carbonation occur naturally in the can/bottle?

I think that sulfites also occur naturally in apple cider...regardless, the article is about how to retain sweetness in "carbonated" cider. Since wine corks typically aren't used for holding back carbonation, I didn't see the need to pasteurize in them.

If you don't want chems, you could always just consume them fairly quickly to keep from having to stabilize correct?

 

[smyrnaquince]

If you ever took physics recall the gas laws. (When heated, gasses build pressure when they cannot increase in volume.) This means that during pasteurization, the gasses in the bottle build pressure, like a pressure cooker.

In a pressure cooker, the higher than atmospheric pressure inside the cooker will take the internal temperature above boiling because you have a heat source that is also above boiling temperature. For bottles in a water bath as described in this thread, the temperature inside the bottles will never get above the temperature of the surrounding water, which is the heat source for the bottles.

 

[kiwibrew]

In a pressure cooker, the higher than atmospheric pressure inside the cooker will take the internal temperature above boiling because you have a heat source that is also above boiling temperature. For bottles in a water bath as described in this thread, the temperature inside the bottles will never get above the temperature of the surrounding water, which is the heat source for the bottles.

The temperature does not need to rise above temperature the surrounding water for the gas to cause an increase in pressure... A high degree of carbonation and water higher than 190 can still cause bottles to explode.

I tried this on a 1/2 gal batch and it was carbed to a high level, similar to champaigne, after 5 days, I put the 4 remaining bottles in a small cooler, filled the cooler with hot tap water, brought some water to a boil took it off the heat waited 2 min drained the hot tap water and added to previously boiled water (didn't take a temp), and 5 minutes later one bottle exploded, and few minutes later another one blew swinging the lid of the cooler open and still shooting the still capped neck of the bottle (Guiness extra stout bottle) almost to the ceiling.

So this can certainly still be a cause for concern and potential danger, and danger increses with change of temperature and degree of carbonation, though is reccomended procedures are followed this probably still safe.

 

[JoshuaW]

You can't stabilize it if its in mid-fermentation (still semi-dry or semi-sweet). The yeast will just keep on going. You could ferment to dry, rack, stabilize, then back sweeten. There would be no need for pasteurizing then.

I will admit, I know you have way more experience, but are you certain?

If you cold crash it a few times and use sorborate, I would think you could knock enough of the yeast out of suspension, then the sorborate would cease reproduction, killing the yeast off in a couple days.

Personally, if you want still cider (boring!) ferment it out, stabilize, back sweeten.

 

[Daze]

In some ways you are both right because the cold crashing temporarily "stops" the fermentation. The cold crashing is the key to drop most of the yeast out of suspension. a good rule of thumb is if the wine is clear you can stabilize with chemicals, but with that said I personally hate chemicals so I am all about pasteurization. Also pasteurization insures that what is in the bottle is sterol which significantly increases shelf life which is key if the ABV is less than 10%

 

[Pappers_]

In some ways you are both right because the cold crashing temporarily "stops" the fermentation. The cold crashing is the key to drop most of the yeast out of suspension. a good rule of thumb is if the wine is clear you can stabilize with chemicals, but with that said I personally hate chemicals so I am all about pasteurization. Also pasteurization insures that what is in the bottle is sterol which significantly increases shelf life which is key if the ABV is less than 10%

Yes, that's what I thought we were talking about - using only the chemicals to stop the fermentation. But stopping the fermentation by cold crashing will usually work. Then you can rack and stabilize. I've never used this method with sparkling cider, only still.

 

[smyrnaquince]

The temperature does not need to rise above temperature the surrounding water for the gas to cause an increase in pressure... A high degree of carbonation and water higher than 190 can still cause bottles to explode.

Sorry. You are right. The talk of a pressure cooker had me thinking about the temps inside a pressure cooker, not the pressure.

I agree that raising the temperature of a closed, fixed-volume container (e.g., a capped beer bottle) will raise its internal pressure.

Yes, I agree that this is cause for concern.

 

[Daze]

I tried this on a 1/2 gal batch and it was carbed to a high level, similar to champaigne, after 5 days, I put the 4 remaining bottles in a small cooler, filled the cooler with hot tap water, brought some water to a boil took it off the heat waited 2 min drained the hot tap water and added to previously boiled water (didn't take a temp), and 5 minutes later one bottle exploded, and few minutes later another one blew swinging the lid of the cooler open and still shooting the still capped neck of the bottle (Guiness extra stout bottle) almost to the ceiling.

So this can certainly still be a cause for concern and potential danger, and danger increases with change of temperature and degree of carbonation, though if recommended procedures are followed this probably still safe.

That right there is the key. If you take a few hours and read the entire thread, every single breakage was the result of a mistake:

1. over carbonation
2. wrong bottles used
3. defect in the bottle prior to bottling
4. hot bottles coming in contact with something cold
5. the directions weren't followed as described using a thermometer to insure the proper temp before and after the 10 minute soak time.

About the only variation I have seen to the original post that is a good one is to preheat the bottles with hot tap water. this reduces the temperature change in the glass AND preheats the liquid in side which allows you to do more bottles at once and reduces the temp drop in the 10 minutes. I did that on my last batch, I pre soaked 9 bottle in hot tap water, about 130º then when I put the bottles in my 190º water bath after 10 minutes the temp had only dropped to 175º

 

[UpstateMike]

Why you can not rush this procedure...

Last weekend I was helping my Brew Buddy pasteurize his first batch of cider. He has done canning before, so he has a nice large pot to use. Unfortunately he also has some preconceived ideas.

He didn't like that after we did a batch, we had to let the water get back up to temp. "Its taking too long" he whined. "I'm going to leave the stove on low while the bottles are pasteurizing, that will keep the temp more even."

I warned against it, but he said that is how he did his canning, and it would be fine. I said ok, more out of morbid curiosity than anything.

So, the waterbath up to 190, we put in 8 bottles, one of them being the plastic test bottle. He turned the stove down to 3, and we waited the 10 minutes.

After 10 minutes we return to the pot. "I smell cider!" he says. We remove the top of the pot and look in. The plastic bottle is leaking from the cap, there is no headspace left. We remove the bottles and set them on a towel on the counter. Before we get more bottles ready to go in, BAM! One glass bottle blew from the bottom or side.

"Now, can we follow the instructions?' I said. He agreed. There were no more bottle bombs that day.

 

[BelMamba]

Why you can not rush this procedure...

Last weekend I was helping my Brew Buddy pasteurize his first batch of cider. He has done canning before, so he has a nice large pot to use. Unfortunately he also has some preconceived ideas.

He didn't like that after we did a batch, we had to let the water get back up to temp. "Its taking too long" he whined. "I'm going to leave the stove on low while the bottles are pasteurizing, that will keep the temp more even."

I warned against it, but he said that is how he did his canning, and it would be fine. I said ok, more out of morbid curiosity than anything.

So, the waterbath up to 190, we put in 8 bottles, one of them being the plastic test bottle. He turned the stove down to 3, and we waited the 10 minutes.

After 10 minutes we return to the pot. "I smell cider!" he says. We remove the top of the pot and look in. The plastic bottle is leaking from the cap, there is no headspace left. We remove the bottles and set them on a towel on the counter. Before we get more bottles ready to go in, BAM! One glass bottle blew from the bottom or side.

"Now, can we follow the instructions?' I said. He agreed. There were no more bottle bombs that day.

Important question: did you just put the bottles into the pot without anything keeping the from touching the bottom?

I successfully did a batch two weeks ago where I heated the water to 170 and leave the heat on for the full 10 minutes but I bought an insert that keeps the bottles from touching the bottom. No bombs during cooking or since ...

The end temperature of the water was 170 again so this method is even warmer then the original 190 start with heat off (that resultet in 160 end) and much faster since I can put in new bottles immediately.

But I already suspected the insert to be crucial, your post seems to indicate that

BelMamba

 

[UpstateMike]

Important question: did you just put the bottles into the pot without anything keeping the from touching the bottom?

There was a thin wire rack that I guess is used for lowering and raising canning jars in and out of the bath. That sat right on the bottom of the pot and the diameter of the wire is about the same as a coathanger. I didn't think it would offer much protection, I used it to help get bottles out of the bath.

 

[JoshuaW]

Why you can not rush this procedure...

Last weekend I was helping my Brew Buddy pasteurize his first batch of cider. He has done canning before, so he has a nice large pot to use. Unfortunately he also has some preconceived ideas.

He didn't like that after we did a batch, we had to let the water get back up to temp. "Its taking too long" he whined. "I'm going to leave the stove on low while the bottles are pasteurizing, that will keep the temp more even."

I warned against it, but he said that is how he did his canning, and it would be fine. I said ok, more out of morbid curiosity than anything.

So, the waterbath up to 190, we put in 8 bottles, one of them being the plastic test bottle. He turned the stove down to 3, and we waited the 10 minutes.

After 10 minutes we return to the pot. "I smell cider!" he says. We remove the top of the pot and look in. The plastic bottle is leaking from the cap, there is no headspace left. We remove the bottles and set them on a towel on the counter. Before we get more bottles ready to go in, BAM! One glass bottle blew from the bottom or side.

"Now, can we follow the instructions?' I said. He agreed. There were no more bottle bombs that day.

Why are you using a plastic test bottle? Im curious, because the plastic is not going to be indicative of the temp in a glass bottle, and as you just witnessed, the plastic will fail.

Several of us have been there now, thankfully you arent writing about your recent trip to the local hospital.

 

[UpstateMike]

Why are you using a plastic test bottle? Im curious, because the plastic is not going to be indicative of the temp in a glass bottle, and as you just witnessed, the plastic will fail.

The plastic bottle is used as an indicator of the level of carbonation prior to pasteurizing. When it gets to the right firmness, I know that it is time to pasteurize the batch. I usually drink the plastic bottle while pasteurizing, but my Brew Buddy insisted on putting it in the bath.

 

[naeco]

The plastic bottle is used as an indicator of the level of carbonation prior to pasteurizing. When it gets to the right firmness, I know that it is time to pasteurize the batch. I usually drink the plastic bottle while pasteurizing, but my Brew Buddy insisted on putting it in the bath.

Smart move ... I will do that so I don`t lose a couple bottles checking for right level of carbonation.

 

[Daze]

Smart move ... I will do that so I don`t lose a couple bottles checking for right level of carbonation.

There is nothing wrong with using a plastic bottle, but there is no reason that you should "loose a couple of bottles checking for right level of carbonation"

When I did mine rather than drink the uncapped brew, I simply recapped it and put a date on the lid so I new which ones I had checked which allowed me to always open a fresh one. Took me 5 days (my fermentation was not very active) to get where I wanted, then I pasteurized. Even the ones that had been opened had plenty of carbonation. Some people might say that uncapping and recapping is just asking some bacteria to get in the bottles. while this is true I was extremely carful which limited exposure, the alcohol and acidity of the beverage will also help and any bugs that make it through that will not make it through the pasteurization so I don't think it is an issue.

 

[naeco]

There is nothing wrong with using a plastic bottle, but there is no reason that you should "loose a couple of bottles checking for right level of carbonation"

When I did mine rather than drink the uncapped brew, I simply recapped it and put a date on the lid so I new which ones I had checked which allowed me to always open a fresh one. Took me 5 days (my fermentation was not very active) to get where I wanted, then I pasteurized. Even the ones that had been opened had plenty of carbonation. Some people might say that uncapping and recapping is just asking some bacteria to get in the bottles. while this is true I was extremely carful which limited exposure, the alcohol and acidity of the beverage will also help and any bugs that make it through that will not make it through the pasteurization so I don't think it is an issue.

OK but don't you lose some carbonation just by opening a bottle so that when you pasteurize it, it would be significantly less carbed that the unopened bottles ?

 

[Daze]

You are going to loose some, but I found it to be insignificant. The one that I opened recapped and pasteurized on the same day still had plenty of CO2 when I drank it. Think of it like this if you have a bottle of pop and you open it take a drink and then reseal the bottle, even if you weight until the next day to have some more there will still be plenty of carbonation in it.

 

[naeco]

You are going to loose some, but I found it to be insignificant. The one that I opened recapped and pasteurized on the same day still had plenty of CO2 when I drank it. Think of it like this if you have a bottle of pop and you open it take a drink and then reseal the bottle, even if you weight until the next day to have some more there will still be plenty of carbonation in it.

Good point ... you're absolutely right !

 

[rritterson]

After having amazing success the first time I used this method, I just had a bottle go KABOOM on me on my second go.

This time, the cider was less carbonated than the last time, and, when the bottle blew, it had already been out of the pot for some time, so it was cooling. The rest of the bottles went off without a hitch, nary even a hissing cap. I can only presume it was a defective bottle that didn't like heating and cooling.

The bottle didn't send glass flying; it looked like someone shot it with a .22-- it just sort of collapsed on itself, but it did make a huge mess. From now on I'll be letting my bottles cool in a pot.

 

[AzuredEyed]

I am looking to try this method, but am nervous. (New father!)

Any methods to reduce risk?

I like the plastic bottle test idea regarding test carbonation. (My thought is you should always test, but a plastic bottle lets you squeeze the bottle and physically feel just how much carbonation is going on).

Is there an idea bottle to use? (I assume you want something as close in size to the actual glass bottles you intend to use?) Also, just how hard is "hard enough" for the plastic bottles? (How hard will the plastic bottle be before I know the glass ones are ready?).

Thanks to all those that respond.

 

[dinnerstick]

you might get different answers for this but here's what works for me. when i have pasteurized i have had success using regular beer bottles and a 500 ml plastic bottle. if you get an unopened fizzy water bottle it is close to rock hard. for a cider that would be way overcarbonated. mine are just right when the bottle is firm but when you squeeze it, it gives just a little bit. the same goes for my other drinks, such as real ginger beer which i bottle exclusively in plastic since it can get a bit dangerous.

 

[Daze]

I am looking to try this method, but am nervous. (New father!)

My first advice, read the entire thread. It takes about 3 hours to get through it all but it shows all the things to avoid doing. As long as you test the CO2 levels first, use a thermometer, and follow the directions as prescribed in the original post, you will be good to go.

The only changes I have made to the procedure which I have found to be effective are to recap after I check the co2 levels and I heat the bottles with hot tap water before pasteurizing.

 

[UpstateMike]

Is there an idea bottle to use? (I assume you want something as close in size to the actual glass bottles you intend to use?) Also, just how hard is "hard enough" for the plastic bottles? (How hard will the plastic bottle be before I know the glass ones are ready?).

My LHBS sells 16 ounce brown plastic bottles, that is what I use. I didn't buy new screwcaps, I just use one from a recently opened pop bottle, sanitized, of course, and firmly hand tightened on the new bottle.

I like a carbed cider, so I let them get very firm, close to the firmness of an unopened pop bottle.

I do not pasteurize the plastic test bottle. I drink it while I am pasteurizing the batch of glass bottles.

 

[AzuredEyed]

Thanks to all that responded.

Okay, I saw some people reference it but has anyone actually tried the "Washing Machine" method? (Same general concept but rather than pots, pans and thermometers, you just run your filled bottles through the Washing Machine).

If it works that seems like a safe, easy and convenient alternative -- probably "too" safe, easy and convenient ("If it sounds too good to be true, it almost always is.").

Interesting though. Has anyone actually tried it?

 

[KemP130]

I wouldn't put bottles in the washing machine just because of the spin cycles, I think the bottles would shatter.

 

[Pappers_]

Thanks to all that responded.

Okay, I saw some people reference it but has anyone actually tried the "Washing Machine" method? (Same general concept but rather than pots, pans and thermometers, you just run your filled bottles through the Washing Machine).

If it works that seems like a safe, easy and convenient alternative -- probably "too" safe, easy and convenient ("If it sounds too good to be true, it almost always is.").

Interesting though. Has anyone actually tried it?

Yes, I know that some folks use their dish washing machine's sanitizing mode to heat the cider bottles enough to pastuerize. It would depend on how hot it gets. I don't remember names, but if you look back through the thread you'll find some folks.

Or use the search function for "dishwasher pastuerizing" and you'll find other threads on this topic. Good luck!

 

[sfrisby]

I wanted to share my experience today for pasteurizing for the first time today.

Most importantly, don't take the risk of bottle bombs lightly.

I fermented down to 1.016 and bottled. Rookie mistake, I forgot the priming sugar. I decided it was a bit sweet at 1.016 and would let it ride with the existing sugar to prime. Pasteurized today, 4 days later, and it got down to 1.010. Added bottles at 190 for 10 min. I was shocked at how much the temp dropped. From 190 to 165 in 2 min. The pot was hardly overcrowded. I could have fit a few more in there if I wanted to. My question to the board is how low can the temp go and still be effective? To prevent from crossing that threshold I can imagine 1 of 2 solutions. First, when temp drops below the threshold, stop the 10 min timer, remove bottles. Fire up the pot back to 190. Put bottles back in. Restart 10 min time. Or 2) Heat initial water to more than 190, maybe 205, then add bottles knowing the temp will immidiatley drop below 190 once all bottles are in. Suggestions?

Back to my experience. During the 10 min soak, had the lid on the pot. One bottle exploded, shot the lid off the pot and onto the floor. Cider/water everywhere. Fortunatly I was on the other side of the kitchen. So please, take the risk SERIOUSLY. Always use a lid to help deflect shrapnel. I then placed the bottles in a bottling bucket with a lid to cool, in case there were any late explosions.

If it dropped 1.016 to 1.010 in 5 days, I would bottle and test after 2-3 days with a goal of pasteurizing at 1.012-1.014.