E-Herms Build 50 amp

[cheez]

The way you have it wired, the switches will only light up when the alarm is triggered (the only hot wire going to the light is dependent on the PID). And yes, all of the lights will come on together.

Do you have room to add another NO contact block to each switch? Then you could have the hot come into that block and illuminate the LED when the switch is on. I hacked up your drawing (sorry for the crappy quality). The hot would come into #3. When the button is pushed, power will go from #4 to X1 (light turns on) and to the PID alarm. When the PID alarm is triggered, power is sent to #6. With the switch closed, power would go from #5 to the buzzer.

I think this will work but will leave it up to the experts for verification. I'm guessing someone has had this same issue before.

It looks like you are using the switch to also power on/off the PID's/Timer's, is that correct? If so, that's not what I was after. If not, I'm still confused. I was going to wire the PID's/Timer's so they are on after turning the main power key switch on. The illuminated push-button alarm switches are just for turning on/off the ability of sending its respective signal to the buzzer. I love brain twisters

You might be on to something though with adding additional NO (or NC??) contacts. These automationdirect switches allow stacking a total of 3 NO and 3 NC contacts per switch. I will look into other contact configurations. I appreciate your help on this!

 

[summerofgeorge]

It looks like you are using the switch to also power on/off the PID's/Timer's, is that correct? If so, that's not what I was after. If not, I'm still confused. I was going to wire the PID's/Timer's so they are on after turning the main power key switch on. The illuminated push-button alarm switches are just for turning on/off the ability of sending its respective signal to the buzzer. I love brain twisters

I wasn't using the switch to power on/off the PID's/Timers. It was just to supply power to the alarm. Are you using Auber PIDs/Timers? Below is from Kal's wiring diagram for the Auber alarms. The PID power comes in to terminal #9 and can be wired to the main power switch. The alarm power comes in to terminal #13. I was running the power from the switches to #13. One issue with this is that you would only be able to set the alarm when the switch is on (as in you couldn't just use the PID alarm indicator without the buzzer going off). I wasn't thinking about this when I first responded. It might make more sense to wire #13 directly to the hot bus like Kal. The PID alarm would function independently of the switch. Then when the switch is closed, the buzzer would sound when the alarm condition is met.

If you went this route, your buzzer wiring would essentially match Kal's. You'd just have another NO block on each switch that turns the light on when closed. The input would come from the hot bus.

 

[cheez]

I wasn't using the switch to power on/off the PID's/Timers. It was just to supply power to the alarm. Are you using Auber PIDs/Timers? Below is from Kal's wiring diagram for the Auber alarms. The PID power comes in to terminal #9 and can be wired to the main power switch. The alarm power comes in to terminal #13. I was running the power from the switches to #13. One issue with this is that you would only be able to set the alarm when the switch is on (as in you couldn't just use the PID alarm indicator without the buzzer going off). I wasn't thinking about this when I first responded. It might make more sense to wire #13 directly to the hot bus like Kal. The PID alarm would function independently of the switch. Then when the switch is closed, the buzzer would sound when the alarm condition is met.

If you went this route, your buzzer wiring would essentially match Kal's. You'd just have another NO block on each switch that turns the light on when closed. The input would come from the hot bus.

I think you nailed it with setting it up like Kal's but having a separate hot lead sending power to an additional NO contact block on each switch. I think it could be a single hot lead jumpered between the same leg of each NO contact block. I'll put together an updated wiring diagram for this tomorrow. Thanks a ton for your help!

 

[summerofgeorge]

One issue with this is that you would only be able to set the alarm when the switch is on (as in you couldn't just use the PID alarm indicator without the buzzer going off).

One more thought on this. I don't know that my above statement is correct. Do you need power going to #13 for the alarm indicator on the PID to work? I'm thinking maybe not. The internal alarm might be powered by the main power and then the external alarm gets power from #13. If this is the case, it shouldn't matter if you switch the power to #13 or if you just run it from the main power. Hopefully this makes sense.

 

[cheez]

One more thought on this. I don't know that my above statement is correct. Do you need power going to #13 for the alarm indicator on the PID to work? I'm thinking maybe not. The internal alarm might be powered by the main power and then the external alarm gets power from #13. If this is the case, it shouldn't matter if you switch the power to #13 or if you just run it from the main power. Hopefully this makes sense.

Based on the Auber wiring diagram for the 2342/2352, #13 gets the same hot in as #9 (the main power). #1 appears to send alarm power out. So, I think I will pull power from either #13 or #9 to feed the extra NO on each switch to light them up.

Does this wiring diagram make sense? If so, I will place a third order in 4 days from automation direct Thanks again.

View attachment alarm switch wiring.pdf

 

[cheez]

I went to order some additional NO contact blocks from automation direct and they are out of stock until the second week of May! I found a few on e-bay to at least get me started.

I have all of my switches, PID's, timers, lights, DIN stuff, etc. I'm going to start cutting out holes on the panel door this week and hopefully start on painting the control panel this weekend. I still need to figure out how I'm going to mount the panel to my stand so I can tap any holes in the back before I get too carried away.

Does anyone have any comments on the latest alarm switch diagram in my post above? It makes sense to me but that has gotten me in trouble before... Thanks!

 

[cheez]

I cut a few holes in the front panel today. The conduit punch is awesome and the dremel made quick work of the PID/timer cutouts. I still have three PID/timer cutouts left to do. The small holes in opposite corners were intended for a starting/end place for the jigsaw until I figured out I didn't have any metal blades. I'm thinking the dremel may have been a better bet anyway. This weekend will be securing the cable plate to the top and hopefully painting the panel.

Does anyone have any input on the alarm switch wiring diagram in post #35 above? I'm hoping next week will be the start of wiring! Thanks.

 

[summerofgeorge]

Just circling back on your updated alarm wiring. When a switch is turned on, the indicator light will come on. Then when the PID/timer alarm condition for the "on" switch is met, the alarm will sound. If this is what you're trying to accomplish, you should be good to go.

 

[cheez]

Just circling back on your updated alarm wiring. When a switch is turned on, the indicator light will come on. Then when the PID/timer alarm condition for the "on" switch is met, the alarm will sound. If this is what you're trying to accomplish, you should be good to go.

Exactly what I want! Thanks again for your help. I put some primer on the panel today and should have it painted by the end of this week. This is too much fun

 

[alien]

Looks great so far h

 

[cheez]

Panel mock up after it was cut out and panel primed. Tomorrow is the real paint on the panel

 

[cheez]

Switches, PID's, timers, and indicator lights installed. Making progress slowly but surely.

 

[Im_Lars]

Looks like some good progress, Now the fun parts starts (wiring). When I did mine it was a little overwhelming at first. Then it got better as I went along. Good luck and keep the pictures coming.

 

[cheez]

The sun and 70+ degree weather decided to show up over the weekend so the only thing I got done on the panel was mounting the DIN rails to the back plate. I played around with placement of the breakers, contactors, etc. and I think I have them where I want them. Hopefully I can start on some wiring next weekend.

 

[cheez]

I got a Monoprice tv mount http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=108&cp_id=10828&cs_id=1082806&p_id=5921&seq=1&format=2 in the mail today and hope to mount the plate to the back of my panel tomorrow. Once that happens, I can put the panel backplate back in and start the wiring. I was hoping to get a big chuck of wiring completed this weekend but all 6 kegs are getting low. So, it will be a brew weekend! With propane

 

[cheez]

Got the tv mount mounted last night.

 

[alien]

I like the idea of a foldaway panel on a TV arm. Definitely a space saver.

 

[cheez]

Once I get my Stout tanks (should be next month), I will figure out how I want to attach the TV mount to the brew stand. I have a big shop and was thinking about placing the brew stand up against a wall and mounting the panel on the wall but I really like wheeling the stand around to wherever I want. On nice days I can wheel it out the garage door and on crappy days I can brew inside. I like to be mobile!

 

[g-love]

I have a big shop and was thinking about placing the brew stand up against a wall and mounting the panel on the wall but I really like wheeling the stand around to wherever I want. On nice days I can wheel it out the garage door and on crappy days I can brew inside. I like to be mobile!

I'm thinking about doing the same with the rig I'm building, for the exact same reasons. I'll be interested in what you come up with.

 

[cheez]

I finally got to some wiring. I'm brewing two 10 gal batches tomorrow so I should be able to spend some time here and there on the wiring. Slowly but surely...

 

[summerofgeorge]

Looking good! I have a few questions on your wiring so far...

Do you need partitions between your neutral/hot/hot terminal blocks? I think most people use something to separate them.

Do you need to use #6 wire from the DIN blocks to the breakers or is it okay to drop down in size since it's such a short run? I thought I read something about doing it your way this on the forum but can't remember where.

Also, where did you get your breakers? I was thinking of getting them from ebrewsupply but they only carry 15A and 25A.

 

[cheez]

Looking good! I have a few questions on your wiring so far...

Do you need partitions between your neutral/hot/hot terminal blocks? I think most people use something to separate them.

Do you need to use #6 wire from the DIN blocks to the breakers or is it okay to drop down in size since it's such a short run? I thought I read something about doing it your way this on the forum but can't remember where.

Also, where did you get your breakers? I was thinking of getting them from ebrewsupply but they only carry 15A and 25A.

I have seen some folks put partitions between the DIN blocks and others have not. I got my blocks from McMaster-Carr and they don't even sell separators - at least I couldn't find any specifcally. I suppose I could use the "end covers" to serve the same purpose. I could easily be persuaded to use them if someone sold me on it being a major safety thing.

I have 10 ga running between the DIN blocks and breakers. I only used 6 ga from the main power inlet through the contactor to the DIN blocks.

I got the breakers from automationdirect as I wanted a 30A for the 5,500w element. Probably overkill but everything this engineer does seems to be overkill

 

[cheez]

I spent about an hour on wiring today and I hope to get a couple of hours in on it tomorrow. I mainly just need to wire up the PID's and relay for the safe start setup. I am still waiting on a few more NO contact blocks for my alarm switches. They are on backorder until the end of this month. If everything goes smoothly, I hope to be brewing on the new system in June.

I received an e-mail from Stout Tanks saying the MT and HLT are ready to pick up but I'm holding off until next month when the BK should be ready. I only live 2 hours from Portland and I am fighting every urge to drive down there and pick up the MT and HLT...

 

[cheez]

I posted a separate question about how to wire the relay for the "safe start" setup here https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/help-relay-wiring-safe-start-interlock-405178/ and Facinerous made a valid point that I don't even need this relay. I already have NC contact blocks on my pump and element switches and these NC blocks are located between the key switch and main contactor. So, if any of these NC blocks are open, it will not allow the juice to flow from the key switch to the main contactor, effectively preventing the panel from lighting up. Sounds good to me. Below is an updated wiring diagram. I'll be finishing all of the wiring this week/weekend and hope to plug it in as soon as I get a few more NO blocks from Automation Direct towards the end of this month.

View attachment Wiring Diagram 3.pdf

 

[orangehero]

Wouldn't the main contactor shut off as soon as you try to turn on a pump/element?

 

[LandoLincoln]

i only live 2 hours from portland and i am fighting every urge to drive down there and pick up the mt and hlt...

Do it! Do it!

 

[cheez]

Wouldn't the main contactor shut off as soon as you try to turn on a pump/element?

Hmm... damn it, I thought I had it all figured out! That makes sense. For some reason I was thinking that once the contactor was engaged it would stay that way until it was told to do otherwise. Well, turning a pump/element switch on would definitely tell it what to do otherwise!

So, once engaged, I am assuming this safe start relay stays that way until the power is off, regardless of the pump/element switch status. But, the relay wouldn't engage at startup unless the pump/element switches are turnd off. Is that why there are two internal switches on these relays? I usually understand the purpose and how to wire basic relays but this one is giving me a headache.

I guess it's back to Plan A. I still need some input on whether or not I have wires going to the correct terminals on the safe start relay.

When I look at the relay wiring diagram, I see power coming into terminal #5 from the key switch and power going into terminal #6/8 (assuming the pump/element switches are not engaged). Wouldn't the power going to #5 engage the main contactor regardless of what's going on with the pump/element switches?

I obviously need help understanding this

Edit: It's probably obvious but I should state that the "red" lines and key switch, element/pump switches, etc. are what I added to Automation Direct's terminal diagram.

View attachment Wiring Diagram 2.pdf

 

[summerofgeorge]

I think you have it drawn up correctly. The power going into #5 will go to #1 until the relay is energized. Once energized, the power will go from #5 to #3 and then to the e-stop and contactor. The only way for the relay to get energized is to get power to #8 (only if pumps and elements are initially off). Once the relay latches, it will be getting power from the main switch so it stays on when the pumps/elements are turned on.

 

[tyzippers]

I will have to respectfully disagree with summerofgeorge. There is no latching circuit the way it's drawn up. When all of the switches are off initially, the relay will switch to the NO contacts. Now, when a pump or element switch is turned on, the relay coil will be unenergized, disengaging the relay again, effectively killing power to the main disconnect contactor. I've attached a revised diagram that should accomplish what you have set out to do.

 

[orangehero]

In post #57, after it's energized, power is supplied from 4-6 which is piggybacked from 3-5 and the main switch. Your version seems to work also.