Duotight gas leak indicator?

[Deadalus]

Aw too bad, thought that might be a possibility. I was wondering if there was a pressure differential around the check valve that the end might be dropping temperature/pressure so then CO2 might move past the check valve. The room is unheated potentially based on the insulation showing, but I am not inclined to think that might happen. I think it would require something like the line from the regulator to the check valve to stay warmer than past the check valve. You could take a check valve out of 2-3 circuits to test that. If you tested it overnight before hanging it and everything was stable you could mostly likely rule that out.

 

[cactusgarrett]

Could someone please confirm for me that when disconnected from a keg, a complete line (ball valve/regulator/check valve/QD) should not drop in pressure over, say, 5 hours? I've been over all fittings 10x, recut all new line, submerged everything, done everything, and I'm still getting the same result. No one, though, has explicitly said that a disconnected line will hold pressure overnight, and that's what I'm using for my indicator of "no leak".

If this isn't the case, I'll at least feel a little better about this situation, but I'm at my wit's end on finding out why these lines don't stay charged when submersion isn't showing any leaks.

 

[seatazzz]

Forgive me for possibly missing something, but are you absolutely sure it isn't the regulator itself? Another easily overlooked leak point is the connection to the tank itself; even with the valve completely closed and you are losing pressure, possibly changing out the gasket where the tank connects to the regulator might be it. I got burned there once, as well as with a faulty cheap regulator. I've got duotights on both the gas and liquid sides (except at the regulator to the manifold, standard barb/hose clamps on both ends) and have not had one leak since installing duotights and evabarrier line late last year.

Again, forgive me if this wasn't suggested above, but what I would try is shutting all the valves on the manifold and turning up the regulator to 15psi, then shutting the valve on the tank. If you are still losing pressure, it has to be the 1) connection at the tank, 2) regulator, or 3) connection at the manifold.

 

[TenaCJed]

Another possibility is a slow leak on the duotight inline regulator. The gauge on the regulator is removable. I had a leak at that point on the blowtie that was very slow, but became obvious when left on a keg for 24 hours. You can take the gauge off and apply some keg lube on the connection point and then put it back on and see if that might help.

 

[cactusgarrett]

Just to put a bow on this:

I finally got to a place where I'm comfortable keeping the gas line open to the system. Here's what I settled on:

• Instead of installing the blue clips after confirming a line was secure, I did so before, with the idea that doing so after could have compromised the hookup. Illogical, but I was grasping at straws, and it worked, so I proceeded.
• I left the blue clips off the check valve connections. I had to really work to get them in, which led me to think that this finagling possibly compromised the interface. Again, doesn't make sense, but whatevs.
• Considering, early on in my attempts, I thought I had this good when the manifold assembly was loose on the floor, but then not good once raised and installed onto the fridge wall, I thought the torque on the regulator interfaces might be impacting things (despite the blue clips). As a result, I installed some additional brackets to support the lines onto the fridge and prevent torsion and support the lines better. Pics to follow for closure.
• Finally, the lines I was most comfortable in were the ones the ball lock QD was hooked up to an empty 1L soda bottle via carb cap. When one line was hooked up and the other four weren't, that one maintained pressure, where the others didn't. Once I established one line was good and moved to the next, when I left the good line's QD disconnected, it lost pressure overnight. So ultimately, the answer to the question I kept posing is: no, do NOT trust a disconnected ball lock QD to hold pressure. Again, they didn't show to leak when submerged in water, but.... results.

Now, onto the liquid side!

 

[Deadalus]

Just to put a bow on this:

I finally got to a place where I'm comfortable keeping the gas line open to the system. Here's what I settled on:

• Instead of installing the blue clips after confirming a line was secure, I did so before, with the idea that doing so after could have compromised the hookup. Illogical, but I was grasping at straws, and it worked, so I proceeded.
• I left the blue clips off the check valve connections. I had to really work to get them in, which led me to think that this finagling possibly compromised the interface. Again, doesn't make sense, but whatevs.
• Considering, early on in my attempts, I thought I had this good when the manifold assembly was loose on the floor, but then not good once raised and installed onto the fridge wall, I thought the torque on the regulator interfaces might be impacting things (despite the blue clips). As a result, I installed some additional brackets to support the lines onto the fridge and prevent torsion and support the lines better. Pics to follow for closure.
• Finally, the lines I was most comfortable in were the ones the ball lock QD was hooked up to an empty 1L soda bottle via carb cap. When one line was hooked up and the other four weren't, that one maintained pressure, where the others didn't. Once I established one line was good and moved to the next, when I left the good line's QD disconnected, it lost pressure overnight. So ultimately, the answer to the question I kept posing is: no, do NOT trust a disconnected ball lock QD to hold pressure. Again, they didn't show to leak when submerged in water, but.... results.

Now, onto the liquid side!

Glad you got it fixed!

Second bullet-Those blue clips can be difficult to get in and perhaps when doing so on the check valves, the ring got pulled too far out.
Fourth bullet- For the pressure to hold on the soda bottle along the isolated ball valve/regulator/check valve/QD when disconnected, that would imply to me that the internal poppet on the QD can't hold pressure. Not a problem connected as it is depressed. I feel bad because I generally make a point to turn off the shutoff valves for each line on the manifold because I have been uneasy about the QDs. I didn't have secondary regulators in the past.

I actually just decided to go with the more traditional secondary regs because I was reading this thread! I caught some good deals on ebay for a set of Taprites. Good to know that you have conquered the issue, your perseverance is noteworthy! Having just installed them, I think part of the issue diagnosing that fourth bullet is that with the metal secondary regs, the CO2 comes in the side and out the bottom. Then a shutoff/check valve is usually used so perhaps difficult to see that the QD is dropping pressure. And if the QD is connected to the keg, all those other connections could be suspect (but multiple kegs dropping would have been odd.) I didn't quite follow the idea to put the soda bottle on at first but now it makes sense so that was a good idea to troubleshoot.

 

[cactusgarrett]

I feel bad because I generally make a point to turn off the shutoff valves for each line on the manifold

This is going to be my MO moving forward, as a result of all this, for sure. And it's nice having the ball/shutoff valves before the secondary DuoTight regulators, just to see what the lines are doing at any given time.

I actually just decided to go with the more traditional secondary regs

I spent 10+ years having 3 lines, teed off one/main regulator, servicing 5 to 6 kegs. I've now got flow control NukaTaps and am putting soda on tap for the kids, so I figured it's time to do it up right by having each line capable of its own, independent pressure.

 

[Yesfan]

Two things.

1 Can you explain to me what the blue clips are for? I clicked the link and they look to be something for an RO setup. I don't have RO, so trying to make the connection of that to a kegerator setup.

2) Are those Duotight ball lock disconnects bad about leaking gas/beer if they are pressurized but unhoooked from a keg?

On your drawing, it looks like there may be a strain issue on your lines from the regulators going into the fridge. I know you figured your leak issue, but do you think that would help prevent another leak from happening?


FWIW......I came home one day last week to pull a pint only to get a couple of dribbles in the glass. My worst fears were realized when I saw the gauges on my CO2 tank at zero. I have a duotight setup, but my leak is due to a faulty poppit valve on one of my kegs. Luckily, I have a spare tank so I've been making an effort to shut the tank off after each pour until my lazy ass can transfer the beer to another keg.

I love the PTC setup I have but I liked have disconnects that can shut off each line that wasn't in use. I still have my distributors from my old keezer. I may try to incorporate it in my new setup.

Glad you got it fixed.

 

[cactusgarrett]

Pics to follow for closure.

Another thing I did, was basically nuke the entire damn thing and recut and refit all tubing. I was a tad bit frustrated for a full week, there.

 

[cactusgarrett]

Can you explain to me what the blue clips are for?

The way these push to fit fittings work is that to disengage, you have to push the external collar in before pulling out on the hose. The clips prevent that collar from being pushed in, preventing an accidental disengagement of the hose.

Are those Duotight ball lock disconnects bad about leaking gas/beer if they are pressurized but unhoooked from a keg?

This is the point of my post (#35). I was judging the integrity of the closed system by how well the closed circuit (unhooked from a keg/bottle) held pressure overnight. Ultimately no one could tell me they should hold pressure, and I found they don't.

it looks like there may be a strain issue on your lines from the regulators going into the fridge.

I suspected this was the case (third bullet point in my post #35) when it worked on the ground then leaked when installed. Again, though: i was judging based on a disconnected ball lock QD, so it might have been a false positive. To hedge my bets, in the updated pic you can see I secured the tubing onto the fridge to reduce that torque.

 

[Yesfan]

The way these push to fit fittings work is that to disengage, you have to push the external collar in before pulling out on the hose. The clips prevent that collar from being pushed in, preventing an accidental disengagement of the hose.


This is the point of my post (#35). I was judging the integrity of the closed system by how well the closed circuit (unhooked from a keg/bottle) held pressure overnight. Ultimately no one could tell me they should hold pressure, and I found they don't.


I suspected this was the case (third bullet point in my post #35) when it worked on the ground then leaked when installed. Again, though: i was judging based on a disconnected ball lock QD, so it might have been a false positive. To hedge my bets, in the updated pic you can see I secured the tubing onto the fridge to reduce that torque.

Thanks. I had an idea of using those ball valves as a gas shutoff, but think I'll pass. I'll just repurpose an old distributor instead. Good idea on the blue clips. I may look into those blue clips. $5 isn't a lot for more peace of mind.

 

[cactusgarrett]

I had an idea of using those ball valves as a gas shutoff

They work, that I had no question of. Had one that showed a leak when submerged, but a free replacement smoothed that over.

 

[OzzyPeeps]

Very unusual for kegland to have a dud product

Have you tried replacing the qds with old school grey MFL QDs with duotight FFL to evabarrier fittings to see if the old school qds hold the pressure?

If be amazed if they didn't ...

I'm amazed the duotights don't... that's blowing my mind