Dunkelweizen Aging Experiment/Discussion

[RmikeVT]

Experienced AG brewer here. I was looking for recommendations and suggestions on how long to age a dunkelweizen. I can find plenty of comments on the 'net and in this forum about hefeweizen age to maturity, as early as 10-14 days with the consensus being drink young and fresh. However, there isn't much information on age to maturity for a dunkelweizen. I know sometimes darker beers need a little extra time to let the roasted malt/roasted barley flavors blend and smooth out.

Not being able to find any great information (just occurred to me I could have cracked open my Brewing With Wheat book -- that thought totally escaped me until now) I've decided to conduct a simple experiment.

I've brewed an 11g batch of dunkelweizen, split into two carboys and pitched WLP300 (I made a starter) in both and kept in the mid to high 60's. I am going to keg one of them this coming Saturday at which point it will be 2 weeks old. The other keg will get kegged when a keg frees up (probably 4-6 week mark). I just want to determine which I prefer, if any.

My recipe is as follow for those who care:
Recipe Name: Funkelweizen
Style: Dunkelweizen
Batch Volume: 12g
ABV 5.5%
OG: 1.054
FG: 1.012 (projected)
IBU: 12.6 IBU
Color: 16.6 SRM

10lbs 8oz German Red Wheat Malt (not sure)
7lbs 6 oz German Pilsner Malt (Avangard)
2lbs 2 oz Dark Munich Malt (Avangard)
1lb caramunich malt (Dingemans)
4oz carafa special II (weyerman)
8oz Special B (Dingemans)
0.6oz Magnum (13.1 AA)

Mash at 152 60 min
Boil 60 min (I'm not really concerned with DMS at that level of pilsner)
Made 2L starter of WLP300, pitched 1L into each carboy, oxygenated each carboy with pure o2 for 45 seconds w/ the valve barely cracked open.

I will keg and chill one of the batches this Saturday 10/18 (13 days old). Let cool and force carb for 48 hours and get back with taste results.

 

[QuercusMax]

I just did a similar recipe which I split with 5 gallons getting WLP300 and the other 5 getting US-05 (as an American Amber Wheat). My gravity was a little lower - started at 1.047 and finished at 1.013. I'm very interested to hear how your experiment turns out.

I kegged up and carbonated the weizen, and it's not bad; I'm thinking it may benefit from a little bit of aging, but it's hard to tell. It's pretty mellow; I fermented it in the low 60s (60-63), and it has a little clove but very little banana. Next time I may try to ferment a little warmer to get more banana.

 

[RmikeVT]

Did you make a starter? I know some folks believe in stressing the yeast without a starter to encourage some more esters/phenols. In brewing classic styles Jamil Z suggests fermenting at 62 to get the best blend of esters/phenols. Last year, I did a dunkelweizen and kept at 62 and it was ok, not great, not bad, just ok.

Im hoping this one turns out a little better.

 

[JonM]

I made Jamils hefeweizen recipe and followed the recipe to the letter . It was spectacular 17 days after brew day.

Fast forward to this fall, and I decided to do a dunkelweizen. I decided to do almost everything the same as the hefeweizen - same volume, weight of grain, hops, same yeast and pitch rate, same fermentation temp. The only change was to swap the pilsner for Munich and swap the white wheat for dark wheat.

EDIT: I added 2 oz. of dehusked Carafa III to "dunkel" it up a little bit more.

I thought for sure it would also be awesome at 17 days, but that wasn't the case at all. It's been in the keg for about a month now, and now it is perfect. So I'm in the group that says age a dunkelweizen a bit.

 

[QuercusMax]

I didn't make a starter; one vial for 5 gallons on 1.050 is a pretty standard pitch rate. Maybe I need to pitch even less.

 

[QuercusMax]

Although I think maybe I'll try raising the temp.

 

[RmikeVT]

I made Jamils hefeweizen recipe and followed the recipe to the letter . It was spectacular 17 days after brew day.

Fast forward to this fall, and I decided to do a dunkelweizen. I decided to do almost everything the same as the hefeweizen - same volume, weight of grain, hops, same yeast and pitch rate, same fermentation temp. The only change was to swap the pilsner for Munich and swap the white wheat for dark wheat.

EDIT: I added 2 oz. of dehusked Carafa III to "dunkel" it up a little bit more.

I thought for sure it would also be awesome at 17 days, but that wasn't the case at all. It's been in the keg for about a month now, and now it is perfect. So I'm in the group that says age a dunkelweizen a bit.

I tossed in 4oz into a 12g batch to dunkel it up a bit, too. I did one without the carafa a few years back in it just wasn't dark enough. Hopefully, it adds a touch smooth roastiness.

 

[RmikeVT]

I just wanted to update this thread.

While both batches of this dunkelweizen were very good and I was pleased with how they turned out. I have to say that the fresh 2 week old dunkelweizen is my preference. I found it to be more of what I expect in a dunkelweizen. The batch that aged out for 6 weeks is more like a brown ale with hints of clove, banana and falls a little flat in comparison. The beer is also not cloudy anymore, after sitting in the keg for 10 days. I can see through it, if I hold it up to the light. The same beer consumed at 16 days was breadier, had assertive clove and banana with spice. It was cloudy and had a creamier mouthfeel. The younger one, for me, was a better example of a fresh dunkelweizen one would get it germany.

Conclusion: If you are a fan of the yeast forward, banana and clove characteristics of a fresh german wheat beer than drink them young between 2 and 3 weeks. If you like a more reserved cleaner dunkelweizen with less yeast character than let the beer age to taste. Overall, I am pleased with both beers, with my preference leaning toward drinking fresh and young.

 

[Bassman2003]

I have been brewing hefe/dunkleweizen for 10-12 years and I think it is one of the toughest styles to equal the original. As you noticed, my homebrew attempts lose their punch with age as well. I have come to the conclusion that the yeast strains used in Germany have been perfected over the years to be very up front with the interesting flavors. "The funk" as I call it is a lot stronger in German examples compared to my homebrewed beers no matter what gymnastics I try with the mash or fermentation schedule. My beers are good and are enjoyable, but it has been a bit frustrating for me to not be able to nail them as I would like. But I have to step back and realize it is tough to equal hundreds of years of German brewing in my garage! It is fun trying though.

 

[Rehlgood]

Just a thought but I like to bottle my dunkelweizen. This is (to my understanding) a more traditional method and it allows you to resuspend the yeast which helps contribute to the flavor.


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[Bassman2003]

I think bottling is a good approach. I too have thought that kegging these types of beers (and Belgians) leaves something out of the equation. You could prime the keg which would generate some secondary fermentation and help carbonate.

 

[Rehlgood]

I think bottling is a good approach. I too have thought that kegging these types of beers (and Belgians) leaves something out of the equation. You could prime the keg which would generate some secondary fermentation and help carbonate.

I think that even if you primed the keg the yeast would still settle out over time and create the same outcome the OP is talking about.

I do agree that I still like to bottle condition beers that a reliant on yeast for flavor and strong beers that require extensive aging.

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[RmikeVT]

*Dupe

 

[RmikeVT]

I think that even if you primed the keg the yeast would still settle out over time and create the same outcome the OP is talking about.

I do agree that I still like to bottle condition beers that a reliant on yeast for flavor and strong beers that require extensive aging.

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I agree with you about bottle conditioning, but I just don't have the motivation to bottle up a 1.050 dunkelweizen when I have all the kegging equipment and if fermentation goes well I can be drinking it the 2 wk mark. For what it is worth, the 2wk kegged beer stayed pretty consistent over the month that it took me to consume it. I also got very tired of drinking it after the first keg kicked. Drinking the second keg was a chore. I think next go around I either brew 5g batch or do something to make the second batch completely different like different yeast and oak age or make it into a fruit beer -- I dont know.