Dry Hops Stuck in Kraeusen

[J_Flint]

I have 4.5 gallons of Best Bitter at day 4 fermenting with Wyeast 1469. Talk about a serious top cropper. Fermentation was slowing down so I figured I'd add my dry hops. The kraeusen was thick and gluey so I swirled the carboy a bit to see if I could knock down the yeast. To my happy surprise it worked and the kraeusen fell. I proceeded to add my .75 ounce dry hop charge and gave it one more gentle swirl before putting my airlock back in place. When I checked on it a couple hours later the kraeusen had reformed, now containing what appears to be ALL the dry hops. Should I just leave it alone? Try to rouse it again? Will the hops still release aromatics into the beer if they are trapped in the kraeusen?

 

[day_trippr]

fwiw, I can't abide that mush just laying atop my beer, so I rock the dry-hopping fermentors any time I'm down in the brewery to get the hop mush layer to at least temporarily sink. Done it at least three times so far today, probably will do it twice more before bedtime

Bio-hopping at just past high-krausen is the worst. Needs the most rockin'

Cheers!

 

[J_Flint]

Merghhhh. I hate fidgeting the beer around. Feel like I'm gonna wreck something...at the same time I know it really shouldn't hurt it. Is letting it float up there just a waste then? Will it not do it's just b caught up in the yeast?

I guess you could say this sort of was a bio hop since krausen was still present and fermentation still active eh?

What exactly does a bio hop yield versus "normal" dry hop practices?

 

[day_trippr]

The theory is some yeast strains are good at transforming various hop compounds into "other" flavorful aromatics, and pitching that "bio-hop" round at or near high krausen provides the best contact between the two. As opposed to waiting until the last few points of fermentation when most of the yeast have already dropped and thus potential scrubbing due to CO2 production is minimal, which is more in line with classic dry-hopping techniques. Typically the bio-hop round is followed by another round at the end of fermentation, a few days later.

As for just letting the mush sit undisturbed save for the yeast activity alone: I throw in pellets and come back to a thick cap of mush. It seems pretty certain that if simply left like that until packaging that the efficiency/yield is going to be significantly less than if that cap gets submerged and broken up before reforming again.

And I can't think of any issues from giving the fermentors a brief rocking every so often, versus leaving them still....

Cheers!

 

[Pkrd]

Here's my last IPA at kegging time. Tastes great!

 

[J_Flint]

Here's my last IPA at kegging time. Tastes great!

View attachment 666071

Yeah that's basically what my bitter looks like... Have you done anything to agitate that?

 

[Pkrd]

No agitation, I never look in my fermenters. Usually I use one of those mesh canisters to sink the hops but I was a little lazy with this one.

 

[J_Flint]

The theory is some yeast strains are good at transforming various hop compounds into "other" flavorful aromatics, and pitching that "bio-hop" round at or near high krausen provides the best contact between the two. As opposed to waiting until the last few points of fermentation when most of the yeast have already dropped and thus potential scrubbing due to CO2 production is minimal, which is more in line with classic dry-hopping techniques. Typically the bio-hop round is followed by another round at the end of fermentation, a few days later.

As for just letting the mush sit undisturbed save for the yeast activity alone: I throw in pellets and come back to a thick cap of mush. It seems pretty certain that if simply left like that until packaging that the efficiency/yield is going to be significantly less than if that cap gets submerged and broken up before reforming again.

And I can't think of any issues from giving the fermentors a brief rocking every so often, versus leaving them still....

Cheers!

Daytrippr, thanks for the detailed reply as always. So even if ferm is dwindling down, but krausen is still present, would this not be a bio hop? A d you're saying there still is alot of scrubbing action being done when you bio hop, so you follow it up with a traditional dry hop also? Is this why I see such ridiculously huge bio hop additions on these NEIPA recipes? This always seemed so wasteful to me so I havent attempted anything like it.

As for agitating, I don't disagree that it likely won't hurt anything, but I always like to look at the other side of the coin too, even if it does t specially apply to me. This batch I have in a carboy, easy enough to swirl around a bit. However, I usually ferment in a small conical which is much more difficult to get that swirly agitation going. What would you suggest in that case?

 

[J_Flint]

So I came home from work today and to little surprise found the krausen reformed again. I took a gravity reading and the beer is likely done fermenting. Again, this is WY1469. Is there any reason the krausen won't fall? Can I just cold crash it or should I wait till it falls naturally. I've never had this issue with any other strains I have used.

 

[khannon]

What about a combo fermenter/french press?
on a more serious note, some use a strainer bag with a marble or two, I've used the stainless mesh things myself, but I don't think I get full utilization.

 

[balrog]

See, that's what I was thinking. I need a french press. Big Mouth Bubbler & bucket sized.

 

[day_trippr]

Daytrippr, thanks for the detailed reply as always. So even if ferm is dwindling down, but krausen is still present, would this not be a bio hop? A d you're saying there still is alot of scrubbing action being done when you bio hop, so you follow it up with a traditional dry hop also? Is this why I see such ridiculously huge bio hop additions on these NEIPA recipes? This always seemed so wasteful to me so I havent attempted anything like it.

Anytime CO2 is evolving there is scrubbing happening. Traditionalists wait until there's only a few points left to ferment before adding dry hops to avoid character loss.

I don't know that the amount used for "bio-hopping" neipas is ridiculous given the goal of creating the proverbial juice bomb. fwiw, my typical neipas get two rounds of three ounces of dry hops per each five gallon half of the batch. That's two ounces more than I use for my brightest wcipas which get hopped late.

As for agitating, I don't disagree that it likely won't hurt anything, but I always like to look at the other side of the coin too, even if it does t specially apply to me. This batch I have in a carboy, easy enough to swirl around a bit. However, I usually ferment in a small conical which is much more difficult to get that swirly agitation going. What would you suggest in that case?

I don't swirl - I'm not trying to rouse the yeast from the bottom of the carboy - so I just rock the carboys about 6" straight back and forward from vertical about four times each. That short sloshing against the carboy shoulder folds the mass of mush back on itself which both helps break it up and get it to sink.

I don't know if the same approach could be safely performed on the home brew scale conicals or not, never had the pleasure of owning one...

Cheers!

 

[J_Flint]

Anytime CO2 is evolving there is scrubbing happening. Traditionalists wait until there's only a few points left to ferment before adding dry hops to avoid character loss.

I don't know that the amount used for "bio-hopping" neipas is ridiculous given the goal of creating the proverbial juice bomb. fwiw, my typical neipas get two rounds of three ounces of dry hops per each five gallon half of the batch. That's two ounces more than I use for my brightest wcipas which get hopped late.



I don't swirl - I'm not trying to rouse the yeast from the bottom of the carboy - so I just rock the carboys about 6" straight back and forward from vertical about four times each. That short sloshing against the carboy shoulder folds the mass of mush back on itself which both helps break it up and get it to sink.

I don't know if the same approach could be safely performed on the home brew scale conicals or not, never had the pleasure of owning one...

Cheers!

Even if roused wouldn't the yeast tend to drop back out quickly anyhow since fermentation would be basically done? Bahhh. I'm falling apart worrying about everything now. Lol. I've been kicking up loads of yeast and CO2 by swirling.

 

[day_trippr]

lol! Come down off the ledge, everything's gonna be alright

I just did another round of rocking and I was waay off on the degree. The tops of the carboy necks are moving less than 2 inches off straight up, and it does only take a back-forward-back-forward with just the right timing to build the wave that does the job. What's on the bottom seems to stay firmly put but that mush cap definitely gets totally submerged, and some of the mush heads for the bottom while the rest slowly floats back up. The cap was definitely only half as thick this evening as a couple of days ago...

Cheers!

 

[J_Flint]

lol! Come down off the ledge, everything's gonna be alright

Hah I'm not really all that worried. I just am very analytical and like to understand precisely what's going on. Leading me to my next issue: I had a Dark Mild fermenting at the same time as this Bitter in question also. Brewed same day, pitched same time with the very same starter. Gravity for the mild was 1.038, gravity for the bitter was 1.042 (6 points of which were invert sugar.)

The mild was very very clearly done fermenting yesterday and even likely the day before. Krausen fell, beer dropped quite clear. Now the bitter is a different story. It still is offgassing quite a bit, very cloudy with obvious yeast in suspension. The krausen as mentioned also keeps reforming each time I break it up. Why is this? I checked the gravity on both and they are right where I predicted them to be finished up at. Bitter is at 1.010, mild at 1.012.

I would like to get this Bitter crashed down and packaged by Friday as my dad is coming to help with some brew-chores that day. The bitter is going to be bottled rather than kegged though so I don't wanna muck it up and end up overcarbed.

I guess some people might disagree but I like to get my session ales packaged in the better part of a week. ~1.040 ish. Primary 4-6 days, cold crash 1-3 days and then package.

 

[day_trippr]

While we've been talking about rocking I completely forgot to mention that given studies showed agitation during dry hopping greatly speeds the process some companies have incorporated that into their brewing process. I'd consider that a green light for the modest "agitation" we're talking about

Cheers!