Dry, hoppy red ale - comments please

[JLem]

Most of my beers lately have been quite malt-forward and/or outright sweet. I'd like to try something more on the dry and hoppy side. How does this look? I've left out the crystal malts to avoid adding sweetness (thinking the Maris Otter will provide enough malt flavors) and added the touch of chocolate for color and some roastiness. Does it need some crystal to balance some of the IBUs? Any other input? (note: 3 gallon, partial mash batch)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 3.00 gal
Boil Size: 2.60 gal
Estimated OG: 1.061 SG
Estimated Color: 13.8 SRM
Estimated IBU: 49.5 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
1 lbs 8.0 oz Extra Light Dry Extract (3.0 SRM) Dry Extract 26.64 %
3 lbs 8.0 oz Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM) Grain 62.17 %
8.0 oz Wheat Malt, Dark (Weyermann) (7.0 SRM) Grain 8.88 %
2.1 oz Chocolate Malt (450.0 SRM) Grain 2.31 %

0.5 oz Newport [10.00 %] (60 min) Hops 33.5 IBU
0.7 oz Cascade [5.50 %] (20 min) Hops 8.9 IBU
0.5 oz Cascade [5.50 %] (10 min) Hops 3.7 IBU
0.5 oz Cascade [5.50 %] (0 min) Hops -
0.5 oz Cascade [5.50 %] (Dry Hop 7 days) Hops -

 

[BierSnob]

I think personally i would replace the wheat malt (unless you are wanting a wheat beer then use the red wheat) with toasted malt ( bake the 8 oz of Maris otter at 325 for 10 min). also replace the chocolate with 4 oz British crystal at 55 lov. I think the chocolate will darken the beer to much.

my .02

 

[JLem]

I think personally i would replace the wheat malt (unless you are wanting a wheat beer then use the red wheat) with toasted malt ( bake the 8 oz of Maris otter at 325 for 10 min). also replace the chocolate with 4 oz British crystal at 55 lov. I think the chocolate will darken the beer to much.

my .02

reasons for replacing the wheat? What will toasted MO bring to the table? I'm OK too with the darker color - I'm more concerned with the taste and thought the chocolate would add flavor without sweetness.

 

[Beerrific]

I think it looks good. I like a touch of wheat in my hoppy beers, the added protein will help build that great lacing. Also, while I would probably add some crystal malt, but if you are going for dry then then the chocolate is the way to go.

If you were going to make this to place in a competition as an American red ale you would need the crystal, but if you want it dry leave it out. I like my hoppy beers dry (except when I am making a red ale).

 

[BierSnob]

The toasted malt will give it a red color and a nice aroma and flavor. I find that darker malts seem to produce more unfermentable sugars which will give the beer a sweeter and less dry flavor.

 

[JLem]

The toasted malt will give it a red color and a nice aroma and flavor. I find that darker malts seem to produce more unfermentable sugars which will give the beer a sweeter and less dry flavor.

Are there commercially available "toasted" malts that could mimic what you are suggesting? I'll need to have the grains crushed at my LHBS so I won't be able to toast them myself. Victory? Biscuit? Melanoidin ? (though I could probably figure out a way to coarsely crush 8oz)

 

[bwomp313]

Amber malt also helps give a nice red color

 

[BierSnob]

I toast mine already crushed. Just toast them until you get a nice red color. It takes right around 10 min. Don't go much longer as you don't want to roast the grain.

 

[JLem]

I decided to go with the grain bill above, except my LHBS didn't have the dark wheat malt, so I got the light stuff instead and upped the chocolate malt to 3 oz. I had them keep 8oz of the MO separate from the rest of the crush, but I think I am going to forgo toasting it for this batch - something to try when I'm experimenting with a known recipe I think

 

[BierSnob]

let us know how it turns out

 

[JLem]

let us know how it turns out

I will and thanks for the suggestions to the recipe. I'm torn about toasting the grains myself - I think it could add a nice flavor complexity to the beer - but I'm nervous to try it for the first time, especially with an unknown recipe.

FWIW I went back through some of my and my brothers' recipes from this past year (our first year of homebrewing) and I noticed a trend: the beers I liked best contained no more than 7% crystal malt. Most had less than 7%. (some of my least favorites contained 20+%). So, I think I am happy to try this one without any crystal, though I still wonder if a few ounces might be a good idea.

 

[dcp27]

I will and thanks for the suggestions to the recipe. I'm torn about toasting the grains myself - I think it could add a nice flavor complexity to the beer - but I'm nervous to try it for the first time, especially with an unknown recipe.

FWIW I went back through some of my and my brothers' recipes from this past year (our first year of homebrewing) and I noticed a trend: the beers I liked best contained no more than 7% crystal malt. Most had less than 7%. (some of my least favorites contained 20+%). So, I think I am happy to try this one without any crystal, though I still wonder if a few ounces might be a good idea.

Troeg's nugget nectar uses minimal if any crystal and its amazing so I think you'll be ok without it

 

[reddskinnfan]

I think it looks good. I like a touch of wheat in my hoppy beers, the added protein will help build that great lacing. Also, while I would probably add some crystal malt, but if you are going for dry then then the chocolate is the way to go.

If you were going to make this to place in a competition as an American red ale you would need the crystal, but if you want it dry leave it out. I like my hoppy beers dry (except when I am making a red ale).

+1!! I use Torrified Wheat in all of my Pale Ales. It helps with head retention, and helps with mouthfeel. I never go higher than 10% though.

 

[JLem]

Just brewed today. After some tweaking, here's what I ended up going with (note: 3.5 gallon recipe, partial mash)

Batch Size: 3.50 gal
Boil Size: 2.60 gal
Estimated OG: 1.057 SG
Estimated Color: 14.2 SRM
Estimated IBU: 51.9 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
3 lbs 8.0 oz Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM) Grain 56.54 %
8.0 oz Wheat Malt, Pale (Weyermann) (2.0 SRM) Grain 8.08 %
3.0 oz Chocolate Malt (400.0 SRM) Grain 3.07 %
2 lbs Extra Light Dry Extract (3.0 SRM) Dry Extract 32.31 % (late addition - last 15 min of boil)

0.50 oz Newport [10.00 %] (60 min) Hops 28.3 IBU
0.25 oz Amarillo Gold [7.00 %] (60 min) Hops 9.8 IBU
0.50 oz Cascade [5.50 %] (20 min) Hops 5.2 IBU
0.25 oz Amarillo Gold [7.00 %] (10 min) Hops 2.0 IBU
0.25 oz Cascade [5.50 %] (10 min) Hops 1.5 IBU
0.25 oz Amarillo Gold [7.00 %] (0 min) (Aroma - Steep 15 min)
0.25 oz Cascade [5.50 %] (0 min) (Aroma - Steep 15 min)
California Ale (White Labs #WLP001) [1L Starter]

Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge
Total Grain Weight: 4.19 lb
----------------------------
Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge
Step Time Name Description Step Temp
60 min Mash In Add 1.57 gal of water at 161.7 F 152.0 F


My plan is to dry hop with:
0.25 oz Cascade [5.50 %] (Dry Hop 7 days)
0.25 oz Amarillo Gold [7.00 %] (Dry Hop 7 days)

I used store bought water (with a known mineral content) and added some gypsum and epsom salt to the boil to up the Ca, Mg, and SO4

Pretty much hit all the numbers. Mash temp was probably at 150ish at the end of the mash. Had a small boil over. Nothing major. Overall, I'm pretty excited about this one.

 

[reddskinnfan]

I think this looks great! Please let me know how this turns out.

 

[JLem]

I think this is the best beer I've brewed yet. The flavor and aroma is phenomenal and the crispness is perfect. That said, I might add a smidge of crystal malt next time to add little sweetness (not much!) and I'm thinking of adding some hops at 30 min.

I think the hops I had (from a local farm; unknown AA%) had less AA% than average and I think the Cascades were less "vibrant" than I was thinking they would be. I was originally calling this a Red IPA, but after tasting it I'm calling it an American Amber.

Definitely a keeper.