Dry hop pellets in primary, depend on crash cooling for racking?

[user 246304]

I haven't dry hopped like this in a long time. 12 gallon brew length, and I will be dry hopping somewhere in the neighborhood of 5 ounces of hop slurry x 3 days, crash cool, and hop to rack clear to a converted half-bbl w/corny setup.

In the past, I always had 3 vessels. Primary, dry-hopping & fining, incl. dry hopping, dry hopping and fining, over to serving vessel.

I don't have that 3rd keg now, just the primary 1/2 bbl, and the serving/corny vessel.

Last attempt, with less hops, at throwing dry hops in primary near the very end then crashed and racked, did not go well. Lots of hop debris plugging up xfer as they went through the corny QDs.

Any suggestions? I should mention this will likely be drunk relatively quickly, between neighbors and my son's graduation party coming up. So less concerned about staling effects than I would normally be.

 

[IslandLizard]

You can tie a piece of voile or a hop bag around the bottom of the racking cane to prevent larger hop particles to transfer to your serving keg.
Stick a stainless washer or nut inside the voile bag to prevent it from sucking tight against the cane opening. Start racking from the middle level and lower the cane as the beer level drops.

If you ferment in a keg and use the dip tube to rack, you can use voile or a hop bag too, but need to be little more inventive there to prevent clogs.

Look into (semi) closed transfers through the liquid out post of 100% liquid pre-purged kegs, to avoid oxygen ingress and thus oxidation. The lid stays put. This method is especially important with hoppier beers, like this.

 

[IslandLizard]

I will be dry hopping somewhere in the neighborhood of 5 ounces of hop slurry x 3 days

What is a hop slurry? Pre-wetted pellets?

3 days is sort of the minimum for dry hopping, 5 days is more common on homebrew level. As long as you can periodically agitate, 1-2 times a day by stirring, swirling, rousing, etc., without introducing air/oxygen into the beer it will help tremendously with the hop oil extraction process and 3 days will be just right. Merely relying on (slow) diffusion is counter productive, IMO.

 

[Dgallo]

What is a hop slurry? Pre-wetted pellets?

3 days is sort of the minimum for dry hopping, 5 days is more common on homebrew level.

New info is actually out about how quickly hop compounds get extracted.

Scott Janish just released his complete new age ipa guide and this is one of the points he cued in on
“Day 10-11 - Crash it to around 58* hold for a day for the yeast to crash then add final dryhop (no more than 3-4oz & make sure to do LODO process). After 24hr crash completely - get the beer transferred off the final dryhop in under 48hrs”

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

I do find that cold crashing significantly helps with clarity for dry hopping. I don't use gelatin in my IPAs and use significant dry hop amounts.

Generally though if you have that much material, you might end up with some in your serving keg. But if you let that keg sit cold for a few days, most of the material that made it into the keg will be sucked through with the first pint or two and then the beer will pour much clearer anyway.

 

[IslandLizard]

New info is actually out about how quickly hop compounds get extracted.

Scott Janish just released his complete new age ipa guide and this is one of the points he cued in on
“Day 10-11 - Crash it to around 58* hold for a day for the yeast to crash then add final dryhop (no more than 3-4oz & make sure to do LODO process). After 24hr crash completely - get the beer transferred off the final dryhop in under 48hrs”

Oh, I didn't know the eBook version had been released already:
Publication Date: May 21, 2019

 

[Dgallo]

Oh, I didn't know the eBook version had been released already:
Publication Date: May 21, 2019

Being an avid brewer of all things hoppy, Just reading the table of contents was enough for me to want to get it.

 

[user 246304]

I do find that cold crashing significantly helps with clarity for dry hopping. I don't use gelatin in my IPAs and use significant dry hop amounts.

Generally though if you have that much material, you might end up with some in your serving keg. But if you let that keg sit cold for a few days, most of the material that made it into the keg will be sucked through with the first pint or two and then the beer will pour much clearer anyway.

First, thanks Island for the many thoughts. Hadn't thought of the weighted bag on the dip tube, very clever. Appreciate it.

Bwarbiany, do you dry hop in primary, i.e., everything (trub, spent yeast, spent/cold crashed hops, etc.) is in one tank, you crash in that, then rack to your serving vessel?

My serving vessel dip tube is actual all the way to the bottom. In the past I customarily nipped just a touch, maybe an inch, with a small pipe cutter and may do the same here. Always had really clear beers but again, that was using 3 vessels.

Problem I'm also having is that I have to move the serving vessel from the "fermentation garage" to the party, where it will be in a bin with ice. It will probably settle down fine, and like you say, couple of pints and likely good. If you or anyone else dry hop in primary, rack leaving prodigious spent yeast and hops behind to a serving vessel, it would give some confidence. I did like the 3 vessel system, and purged with CO2 pretty thoroughly, but I'm stuck for now with 2 vessels.

Oh, Island, hop slurry. I got this from Goose Island, where I worked. Matt Brynildson was the brewer when I was there and I don't know if this was his thing or not, but I learned to hate sitting on hops too long. So, more hops over a short period, if you want more dry hop character, was the bent. Slurry is just hops recirc'ed with beer until you get a literal slurry, then pumped into FV. On a home level, I try to use a beer close to my finished beer, drop hops and beer in a sterile container, allow to macerate, stir as gently as possible, until the pellets bust apart and go into solution. Slurry. Dump it in. Theory is this gives a quicker extraction. 3 days warm then crash cool x 24 hours and out. Matt likes a double dry hop or more. I don't do that, but I see the benefit.

 

[Dgallo]

If you or anyone else dry hop in primary, rack leaving prodigious spent yeast and hops behind to a serving vessel, it would give some confidence. I did like the 3 vessel system, and purged with CO2 pretty thoroughly, but I'm stuck for now with 2 vessels

Fermentation and dryhoping should be done in the same vessel. Any additional racking just increases the chances for oxidation. Like @IslandLizard mention earlier, you want to be as close to a closed transfer system as possible. I dryhop twice. Once 4 days out from kegging and again 2 days from kegging. I will then cold crash under pressure minimal pressure, 5-8 psi, so that I do have any suck back from the negative pressure created by dropping temperature. I’ll cold crash for 24 hours, this will drop the remain dryhops to the bottom. Then you can rack debris free beer to your keg all while limiting oxidation.

 

[user 246304]

Hey Dgallo, thanks for your experience points. Yeah, I was always loathe to do it in three vessels for the reason you and Island are talking about but at that point, with what I knew then, it was a tradeoff with (utilization? Was that it?) but as with all things I'm talking about, that was 20 years ago or so, since I haven't been back in all that long. I'll go back to two vessels (which pleases me to no end) and give it a shot. Thanks.

FYI in case anyone is interested, Brynildson likes his first addition in the CCV at about 1P before terminal, so it gets some transformation from the brew. He dumps, does another 3 days warm, the crashes x 24 before dumping again and sending to filter/bright.

A 20 gallon CCV at this point is tempting. So is continuing to live, as my wife would murder me in my sleep.

 

[Jag75]

@Dgallo- how does that work while cold crashing with pressure . 5-8 psi pushed into the fermenter would cause the airlock to shoot off the top.

 

[Dgallo]

@Dgallo- how does that work while cold crashing with pressure . 5-8 psi pushed into the fermenter would cause the airlock to shoot off the top.

It holds no problem. I beleave my hose is 3/16 ID and the ED is 3/8 but don’t quote me I can’t remeber anymore. Fits directly in my airlock hole and my bung holds it. Another buddy of mine does the same set up but his ED of the hose is larger so he goes right into the bung. He holds his at higher pressure than myself and just inverts the bung so the positive pressure keeps it in

 

[Jag75]

It holds no problem. I beleave my hose is 3/16 ID and the ED is 3/8 but don’t quote me I can’t remeber anymore. Fits directly in my airlock hole and my bung holds it. Another buddy of mine does the same set up but his ED of the hose is larger so he goes right into the bung. He holds his at higher pressure than myself and just inverts the bung so the positive pressure keeps it in

Wow that's nuts . I figured 5 psi of constant pressure would pop that out . Pretty cool I must say.

 

[user 246304]

Well, if this beer survives at all, I'd be surprised. Went back to check on it and again the Inkbird had tanked. Beer had free-risen to 75F and was proceeding murderously. I luckily had the Johnson dinosaur right there and switched it on, but no time to calibrate (I had to turn the controller setpoint to 58F before the refrigerator finally kicked on), so I have no idea what temp I have going in the cooler. On her way to work my wife put a remote and base thermo in so hopefully we'll get a better idea of what's going on. Frustrating. Don't think I'll be using Inkbird in the future.

 

[kh54s10]

Well, if this beer survives at all, I'd be surprised. Went back to check on it and again the Inkbird had tanked. Beer had free-risen to 75F and was proceeding murderously. I luckily had the Johnson dinosaur right there and switched it on, but no time to calibrate (I had to turn the controller setpoint to 58F before the refrigerator finally kicked on), so I have no idea what temp I have going in the cooler. On her way to work my wife put a remote and base thermo in so hopefully we'll get a better idea of what's going on. Frustrating. Don't think I'll be using Inkbird in the future.

Was this at the beginning or the end of fermentation? If at the end what are your worries? Many raise the temperature at the end to make sure the yeast finish up their work. If after all fermentation? That is no warmer than bottle conditioning.

You may have a faulty Inkbird, or set it's parameters incorrectly. I would not blast Inkbird. IMO, they are one of the best controllers on the market. Far superior to my Johnson dinosaur that I also have sitting around as a backup.

 

[ApolloSimcoe]

I have a very similar setup as Dgallo and have pushed it to 10 without blowing anything

 

[Jag75]

@ApolloSimcoe that's a cool set up. You modify your lid ? Looks cool. I am planning on modding my fastferment lid to hook up to a chiller .

 

[ApolloSimcoe]

yes, i modified a solid lid. So we dont hijack this thread further you can see more here.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/...ransfers-from-fermonster-to-corny-keg.664270/

 

[IslandLizard]

Don't think I'll be using Inkbird in the future.

Many use those Inkbirds with very few reports of failure. Common failures are defective probe/sensor and relays welding shut (= always on).

Probe placement is essential with these controllers. Where was it located?

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

Bwarbiany, do you dry hop in primary, i.e., everything (trub, spent yeast, spent/cold crashed hops, etc.) is in one tank, you crash in that, then rack to your serving vessel?

Yes, I use a 15.5 gal Sanke keg with this kit from Brewers Hardware. Everything is one tank, dry hop right in there, cold crash, and rack (actually push under CO2 pressure) into my 2 serving kegs. I really do try to minimize trub pickup during transfer. I can usually get VERY clear beer to the 1st keg as I'm able to keep the end of the racking cane well above trub level without running dry. Keg #2 does pick up more though.

My serving vessel dip tube is actual all the way to the bottom. In the past I customarily nipped just a touch, maybe an inch, with a small pipe cutter and may do the same here. Always had really clear beers but again, that was using 3 vessels.

That's an option, but could also cause an issue. Think about it... with a tube that goes almost all the way down, those first 2 pints will be mostly trub, and at that point most of the trub in the keg will be gone. If you have a tube that doesn't reach, you may be leaving trub in the keg to continually get stirred up every time you move it.

With full dip tubes, ever time I clean a keg I've basically got no trub at the bottom of the keg. Not sure if that would be true with a snipped tube.

Problem I'm also having is that I have to move the serving vessel from the "fermentation garage" to the party, where it will be in a bin with ice. It will probably settle down fine, and like you say, couple of pints and likely good. If you or anyone else dry hop in primary, rack leaving prodigious spent yeast and hops behind to a serving vessel, it would give some confidence. I did like the 3 vessel system, and purged with CO2 pretty thoroughly, but I'm stuck for now with 2 vessels.

Pull the first 2 pints before you leave the house, to get the bulk of the trub out. That way all that trub won't be stirred up in transfer.

To be honest, this is something that most of us who go to the Southern California Homebrew Festival deal with every year. Especially since [per my description above] I've been bringing the 2nd-filled keg to the fest each time which has more trub. So it spends an hour+ car ride on some twisty roads to get there, and then typically gets immediately hooked up to a tap and run through a jockey box (no need to keep the keg chilled). Pints are pouring clear. Then the next morning, it is trucked to the tent at the fest and usually not sitting more than 20-30 minutes before we start pulling pints, and it's pouring clear.

As long as you pull off the "dirty" pints before you do the transport, you'd be amazed at how quickly the beer runs clear even after transport.

So you can proceed with confidence

 

[user 246304]

Was this at the beginning or the end of fermentation? If at the end what are your worries? Many raise the temperature at the end to make sure the yeast finish up their work. If after all fermentation? That is no warmer than bottle conditioning.

You may have a faulty Inkbird, or set it's parameters incorrectly. I would not blast Inkbird. IMO, they are one of the best controllers on the market. Far superior to my Johnson dinosaur that I also have sitting around as a backup.

Sorry, missed this, KH. Beginning, which is why I'm bummed we're at 75F over the first 24 hours. Parameters were set correctly (familiar with the brand - very happy with a combined T/RH for my cheese cave). Something must have happened to it. Typically I will plug it in after a "night off," and I can set everything perfectly, no problems. Or, as is my habit, I will jump to the final parameter (can't recall the code) for C v. F (I prefer F), then set the value, then try to go back in to set everything - and it pops into C readings, I get that weird "E5" or "ES" PV, and it is frozen - cannot iterate through the parameters, set is stuck. So I don't know.

Maybe this is just a one off, then? It does seem like everyone loves them here.

Thanks for the post.