dry beer with high final gravity?

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huskeypm

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Hi all,
I'm trying to decide whether my beer is done fermenting or if I need to pitch yeast more yeast. The beer is an oatmeal porter partial mash, had a ~1.06 OG, and used yeast starter from a previous batch. After two weeks the FG was only 1.03, I warmed it for a week to 73 degrees, still no change, added yeast energizer, and after 4 weeks, it's still holding steady at 1.03. Nevertheless, the beer is very dry for having such a high FG, which makes me think that my mashing went awry and yielded a low amount of fermentables, which are now exhausted.

Some additional details are that I mashed at about 152 F, but it turned out that not all of the grain was submerged somehow. The temperature probably dove to the mid 140s after 70 minutes or so. I sparged near 170 and got what I thought was about 1.04 OG. I also forgot to add some of the specialty grains to the mash (choco malt), so instead added them to the boil, along with some extract to bring OG up to 1.06.

Any thoughts on my next course of action (pitch or bottle?)

Thanks!!
pete
 
Is this reading with a hydrometer or refractometer?

I ask because you said the beer tastes dry but at 1.030 it certainly shouldn't taste dry, it should taste overly sweet

If you used a refractometer take a reading with an hydrometer. Refractometers do not read well when there is alcohol present and even with proper conversion the reading may not be correct.
 
If you added grains to the boil that may be where the "dryness" is coming from in the form of astringency. Tannins are released from barley husks at higher temps and pH levels. 1.030 should not yield a "dry" beer. You are most likely tasting astringency. Or maybe your hydrometer is not reading correctly.
 
Have you checked your hydrometer in 60 degree water to see if it reads 1.000?
 
Hmm, I worried about the astringency but I had hoped the pound or two of specialty grains wouldn't be noticeable.
I check the hydrometer recently at 70 degrees and it was off by 0.002, so unfortunately it doesn't explain the 0.015 difference between my FG and expected OG (1.03 vs 1.015 or so)

So it sounds like my 'unfermentables' theory is probably not correct? Does that leave re-pitching?
p
 
Yes, boiling the grains extracted tannins which would create astringency which is a dry, puckering taste but that still doesn't explain the high gravity

Are you temp correcting your reading? Perhaps at this point the grain bill would help

Also, what yeast and did you make a starter ? If dry was it an 11g pack?
 
Yes, boiling the grains extracted tannins which would create astringency which is a dry, puckering taste but that still doesn't explain the high gravity

Are you temp correcting your reading? Perhaps at this point the grain bill would help

I agree. Even with tannins, a taste of that gravity would go "hmmm that's sweet...<pucker from tannins>." Something's not right.
 
Thank you for you responses.
-The grain bill follows the end of the email.
-I didn't report a temperature-corrected hydrometer reading, but apparently the difference between ambient and the 60F reference is 0.001, so not much at all.
-I did make a ~2 L starter at 1.06 OG and I don't recall the original yeast type (was from a packet). I have recycled the yeast maybe three times so far and the prior batches stopped early (1.02) but were still ok to bottle.

I'll check again tomorrow for the sweet-to-pucker test, as I just ate a couple of cookies.

Pete


Bills:


8.0 oz Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 7 3.3 %
1 lbs Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM) Grain 3 6.7 %
1 lbs Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 4 6.7 %
8.0 oz Black (Patent) Malt (500.0 SRM) Grain 6 3.3 %
3 lbs Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 2 20.0 %
1 lbs Oats, Flaked (1.0 SRM) Grain 5 6.7 %
8 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 53.3 %
---> replace with 3 lbs malt + 3 lbs 10 oz LME

All were mashed at 156 (and eventually down to mid 140s) according to the recipe at the bottom of (https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/help-highland-oatmeal-porter-clone-169726/)
The exception of course were 2lbs of the specialty grains, which I now wonder if I ever filtered out (grain bag was kaputt)
 
huskeypm said:
Thank you for you responses.
-The grain bill follows the end of the email.
-I didn't report a temperature-corrected hydrometer reading, but apparently the difference between ambient and the 60F reference is 0.001, so not much at all.
-I did make a ~2 L starter at 1.06 OG and I don't recall the original yeast type (was from a packet). I have recycled the yeast maybe three times so far and the prior batches stopped early (1.02) but were still ok to bottle.

I'll check again tomorrow for the sweet-to-pucker test, as I just ate a couple of cookies.

Pete

Bills:

8.0 oz Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 7 3.3 %
1 lbs Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM) Grain 3 6.7 %
1 lbs Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 4 6.7 %
8.0 oz Black (Patent) Malt (500.0 SRM) Grain 6 3.3 %
3 lbs Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 2 20.0 %
1 lbs Oats, Flaked (1.0 SRM) Grain 5 6.7 %
8 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 53.3 %
---> replace with 3 lbs malt + 3 lbs 10 oz LME

All were mashed at 156 (and eventually down to mid 140s) according to the recipe at the bottom of (https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/help-highland-oatmeal-porter-clone-169726/)
The exception of course were 2lbs of the specialty grains, which I now wonder if I ever filtered out (grain bag was kaputt)

20% of the grain bill is crystal/specialty grain which is a lot of less fermentable grain and you mashed high and used tired yeast-your starter should have been a lower gravity, like 1.040.

IMO this is the reason why the beer stalled out on you:)
 
Wow, thanks for the very specific points! You said 'stall', so given that I've already heated and added energizer to the stuck fermentation, would you suggest repitching new yeast?

If you don't mind me asking, can you elaborate on your points?
- is 20% of the grain bill is less fermentable, this means that my 1.06 OG might be more like 1.04 of 'viable' sugars (e.g., the longer chain sugars are still getting washed into the wort during sparging)
- I mashed 'high' based on the recipe, but I figured higher temperatures would mean more conversion of the starches into fermantables (is my understanding wrong?)
- what's the logic behind using a lower OG starter for the 'tired' yeast?


Thanks for the insight!
p
 
- I mashed 'high' based on the recipe, but I figured higher temperatures would mean more conversion of the starches into fermantables (is my understanding wrong?)

p

Yes your understanding is wrong. The temperature of the mash affects what type of sugars are created. When you mash higher, you end up with a much higher percentage of unfermantable long-chain sugars.
 
rklinck said:
Yes your understanding is wrong. The temperature of the mash affects what type of sugars are created. When you mash higher, you end up with a much higher percentage of unfermantable long-chain sugars.

+1.

Mashing means converting starches to sugars. You did this. When you are in the mashing range, amalase (both alpha and beta) chop long starches into shorter starches (sugars). At the high end of the range (155-160), you sort of randomly chop the starches. They get shorter, but often not short enough. At the low end of the range (145-150), it is much more uniform and mostly fermentable. Above 160, you denature the enzymes and stop doing anything with starches.

Hope this helps.
 
Thank you both! I appreciate the detailed answer, since at least by training I'm a chemist (though you wouldn't guess it from the variability in my beer outcomes)
 
Dude, when you first start there is a lot of variability. It will get more standardized. Keep at it and take good notes.
 
huskeypm said:
Wow, thanks for the very specific points! You said 'stall', so given that I've already heated and added energizer to the stuck fermentation, would you suggest repitching new yeast?

If you don't mind me asking, can you elaborate on your points?
- is 20% of the grain bill is less fermentable, this means that my 1.06 OG might be more like 1.04 of 'viable' sugars (e.g., the longer chain sugars are still getting washed into the wort during sparging)
- I mashed 'high' based on the recipe, but I figured higher temperatures would mean more conversion of the starches into fermantables (is my understanding wrong?)
- what's the logic behind using a lower OG starter for the 'tired' yeast?

Thanks for the insight!
p

Most of your questions were answered by others but the 20% question.

Unless you are looking for a very malty beer ideally you try to keep things like crystal malt in the 10% or less range and the dark specialty malts less than 5, 1-2%
 
Thanks everyone - Lots of useful advice. I'll repitch some fresh yeast, hope for the best, and keep these factors in mind for my next brew.
p
 
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