Draining the wort..

[WCStuckey]

So I have a question that I cannot seem to get an answer too. I have been brewing for about three years now, my second year in All Grain. My ratio is 60 / 40, 60 to the good. Which to me is unacceptable. I have done all the research and I am doing everything correctly but still the brew tastes very off..

There is one thing I noticed it could be, watching videos and reading books and articles that after you Mash and do your vorlauf most people use a hose to drain their wort into the brew kettle. I have not, which leads me to wonder if the aeration created when draining the wort isn't causing a chemical reaction that could be creating off flavors. I know too much aeration can be bad but I thought that was only after the boil.

Has anyone else ran into this issue?

Thank you in advance, when my beer turns out well it is really good but I need to close that ratio gap significantly.

William..

 

[kev211]

How are you draining your wort to the boil kettle? I highly doubt that is your issue regardless though. I know that hot side aeration exists, but boiling drives off O2 so I have a feeling that any O2 blended into suspension from splashing is boiled off. What does the rest of your process look like? Can you find any differences between your "good" and "bad" batches? Fermentation temp control? Temp when pitching yeast? Water? Have you brewed the same recipe/kit twice and had it come out good once and not another time?

For the record, I use a hose to drain my wort from mash tun to boil kettle, but Ive done it without it in the past.

 

[JLeuck64]

Pardon my ignorance but what is this ratio you mention, 60/40 with 60 to the good?

Yes, get rid of the oxygen and start draining through a hose. No splashing is good for beer ( ;

 

[kev211]

Pardon my ignorance but what is this ratio you mention, 60/40 with 60 to the good?

Yes, get rid of the oxygen and start draining through a hose. No splashing is good for beer ( ;

Im assuming he meant that 60% of his beers are good and 40% are not.

 

[WCStuckey]

Yes the 60% is good beer..

As far as my process it is the same with every brew I do.. Although the wort has about a two foot drop from the mash tun to the kettle. So I don't know if that makes a difference.

As far as your questions..
Fermentation temp control? I have a temp controlled area in my basement that is between 65 and 70 degrees.

Temp when pitching yeast? Temp when pitching yeast is about between 75 and 78

Water? Water is Well water I live in the country.

Have you brewed the same recipe/kit twice and had it come out good once and not another time? Anytime I brew with extract or kits the beer comes out beautifully... My All Grains usually the dark ales come out great more then not and the lighter ales tend to have more off flavors..

So I am a little confused...Obviously..

Thank you both for your replys.

 

[kev211]

Have you brewed the same recipe/kit twice and had it come out good once and not another time? Anytime I brew with extract or kits the beer comes out beautifully... My All Grains usually the dark ales come out great more then not and the lighter ales tend to have more off flavors..

So I am a little confused...Obviously..

Thank you both for your replys.

"Lighter" beers dont have as much big flavors to cover up off flavors so that is understandable. Can you identify what the off flavors are? Ive found this table very helpful.

Do you keg or bottle? Could be oxidation.

Sounds like its usually the AG thats an issue. Whats your strike temp usually? Mash temp? Sparge temp? Whos crushing your grains?

 

[Sailingeric]

Yes the 60% is good beer..

As far as my process it is the same with every brew I do.. Although the wort has about a two foot drop from the mash tun to the kettle. So I don't know if that makes a difference.

As far as your questions..
Fermentation temp control? I have a temp controlled area in my basement that is between 65 and 70 degrees.

Temp when pitching yeast? Temp when pitching yeast is about between 75 and 78

Water? Water is Well water I live in the country.

Have you brewed the same recipe/kit twice and had it come out good once and not another time? Anytime I brew with extract or kits the beer comes out beautifully... My All Grains usually the dark ales come out great more then not and the lighter ales tend to have more off flavors..

So I am a little confused...Obviously..

Thank you both for your replys.

Fermenation temp could be on the higher side, since the yeast can cause heat. Your pitching is on the high side as well. I try to be as close to the ferm temp as possible when pitching. Water might be a problem if you have harder water. Try using some RO water.

 

[kev211]

Fermenation temp could be on the higher side, since the yeast can cause heat. Your pitching is on the high side as well. I try to be as close to the ferm temp as possible when pitching. Water might be a problem if you have harder water. Try using RO some are water.

Ya I was thinking the pitching temp was a little warm as well, but ive done that before in a hurry with no issues so I cant imagine that it has too big of an impact

 

[WCStuckey]

"Lighter" beers dont have as much big flavors to cover up off flavors so that is understandable. Can you identify what the off flavors are? Ive found this table very helpful.

Do you keg or bottle? Could be oxidation.

Sounds like its usually the AG thats an issue. Whats your strike temp usually? Mash temp? Sparge temp? Whos crushing your grains?

From your chart it tastes more like Oxidation the sweetness and maltiness is there (which could very well be an excellent beer) but that element destroys it.. I typically bottle but hopefully will be Kegging soon..

My Strike temp is usually around 165... Mash Temp is around 152.. Sparge is usually in the mid 160's.. I have the brew shop crush my grains as I don't have a grain crusher yet..

 

[WCStuckey]

Fermenation temp could be on the higher side, since the yeast can cause heat. Your pitching is on the high side as well. I try to be as close to the ferm temp as possible when pitching. Water might be a problem if you have harder water. Try using RO some are water.

I thought that was a pretty good pitching temp for ales but that could be where my problem is. I have done a no chill wait on my wort at times and let it rest for the night before pitching....

Our water is a little limey so I may need to add a PH Stabilizer, I didn't think that would have as much effect in the over all product given the fact I have had several successful brews.. I could definitely try some RO thanks for the suggestion.

 

[kev211]

From your chart it tastes more like Oxidation the sweetness and maltiness is there (which could very well be an excellent beer) but that element destroys it.. I typically bottle but hopefully will be Kegging soon..

My Strike temp is usually around 165... Mash Temp is around 152.. Sparge is usually in the mid 160's.. I have the brew shop crush my grains as I don't have a grain crusher yet..

Ya I would put my money on oxidation. I dont know your bottling process, but when I bottled, it was a crap shoot as to which of my beers got oxidized (basically it came down to how quick and smooth I was). Ever since Ive gone to filling kegs via Co2 push I dont have that issue. I think oxidation is your issue, but I doubt its from filling the boil kettle. Darker, more flavor packed beers can just mask the oxidation off flavor better

 

[WCStuckey]

Ya I would put my money on oxidation. I dont know your bottling process, but when I bottled, it was a crap shoot as to which of my beers got oxidized (basically it came down to how quick and smooth I was). Ever since Ive gone to filling kegs via Co2 push I dont have that issue. I think oxidation is your issue, but I doubt its from filling the boil kettle. Darker, more flavor packed beers can just mask the oxidation off flavor better

Well that's unfortunate, even though I use those swingtop bottles.. Is there anyway I can combat this or do I have to pray to the beer gods every time I bottle?

 

[kev211]

Well that's unfortunate, even though I use those swingtop bottles.. Is there anyway I can combat this or do I have to pray to the beer gods every time I bottle?

Could be that the gaskets on them arent sealing right? Couldnt tell you for sure though. Maybe pray to the beer gods until you start kegging haha

 

[WCStuckey]

Could be that the gaskets on them arent sealing right? Couldnt tell you for sure though. Maybe pray to the beer gods until you start kegging haha

Well I am going to brew a Stout this weekend I will let you all know how it turns out..


Thank everyone for the help on this problem....

 

[C-Rider]

I mash in a 5 gallon round cooler and drain it into the boil kettle by opening the valve on the cooler and letting the wort pour into the boil kettle. That's usually a distance of 18 inches. Never had an oxidation problem.
How do you move the bier from the fermenter to the bottling bucket? That's a place O2 can be introduced causing problems.
I usually add my dry yeast to the wort at about 76*. That's about the temp of my ground water and don't think I've had a temp issue w/that.

 

[snathanb]

Oxygen entering the process prior to wort boiling is not going to cause any issues. You need to aerate your wort after boiling for your yeast to thrive, specifically to get oxygen back *in* to your wort. It's only after the wort and yeast have gone into your primary and started fermenting that you really need to start being concerned about 02.

 

[fatherdan]

im not an expert but once I went to a fermentation fridge(temp controlled)ive yet to have a bad batch.

your pitching too warm also(according to the experts)

each yeast is gonna respond different to temp variations. you have a huge variable if your not controlling the temps.

 

[kh54s10]

This should be relatively easy to fix.

I doubt it is hot side aeration, but you could get a hose to go to the bottom of the kettle.
Control the temperature of the wort, not the temperature in the room. Keep the temperature in the mid sixties for most ale yeasts. This is the area of most concern to me.
Pitch the yeast at close to the fermentation temperature.
Use different water.
Get some standard beer bottles and a capper.
Watch carefully for any air getting into the beer during transfers, and bottling.

If those don't help, then you have something more complicated going on.