Dough-in Temp

[Sweetwort-Hopkins]

Hey all, newbie here. So, after having brewed just under a dozen DIPA's, I shot for a sessionable hoppy pale ale yesterday. Grain bill was 10# on the dot as opposed to the usual 20ish# for a DIPA.
My concern is this: I am used to doughing-in 20# of grain at 164F to achieve about 152F once all grain is added and then I'll seal the MLT (10gal Igloo) after stirring shortly for a rest temp of 150F. Yesterday's brew recipe suggested a 152F mash. I am used to losing 10-12F during dough-in - so, I let my strike water cool down to 166F for this recipe (figuring I'd land at about 154F when all the grain was added). With all the grain in the tun, the temp sat at 156F for about 10-15mins (all the while I was stirring somewhat aggressively too help release some of the heat. I am super-apprehensive about adding any cold water just because I don't want it to drop any lower than my target temp - and then have to fight that). So, after maybe 15mins at 156F, I got it down to 152F and sealed the lid. I accounted for the fifteen mins and set my timer for a 45min sealed mash.
Wort tasted great after vorlauf and I let it flow into the kettle.

My question is this: What effect may the 156F temp at the beginning of the mash have on the final beer quality/taste??

I've read on some threads that most of the conversion happens in the first 15mins. I'm not super worried and I'm attributing this situation to the smaller amount of grain than I've typically brewed with. Next time I'll dough-in a bit closer to the rest temp when brewing a lower gravity/less grain beer.

Any thoughts would be highly appreciated!! Cheers

 

[Clonefan94]

Good, timely Question.

I have actually been meaning to come ask this same question. I had the same thing happen the last time I brewed and wondered how much of an impact warmer temps have at the beginning of the mash.

Keeping an eye on this one.

 

[Onkel_Udo]

In theory, you will have a much (relatively speaking) less fermentable wort. This depends on the amount of time at that temp, how homogeneous it was temperature wise and even how fine the grain is crushed.

In reality you will take a few hits on your FG and the beer will be slightly maltier but you are unlikely to taste the difference on a DIPA. If it were a more delicate beer like a Kolsch or American Light Lager, the difference would be more noticeable. Conversely on a Stout I doubt the average person could tell the difference between 149 and 156.

 

[Hammy71]

The beer will be slightly different than if you had mashed at the correct temp the entire time. Your FG may be a bit higher than the recipe called for. There are several on line calculators that will help you in the future with determining strike water temp. Here's the one I use...

http://www.brewheads.com/batch.php

 

[bragona71]

there are a lot of factors contributed with mash temps! here is a good read

 

[bragona71]

http://http://brewgr.com/calculators/mash-sparge-water-insusion

The beer will be slightly different than if you had mashed at the correct temp the entire time. Your FG may be a bit higher than the recipe called for. There are several on line calculators that will help you in the future with determining strike water temp. Here's the one I use...

http://www.brewheads.com/batch.php

+1 and I use this one, there are tons out there pic one that works for you

 

[Yooper]

One thing that helps to lower temps when you're a bit too high (besides vigorous stirring) is to add an ice cube or two. Sometimes, that's all it takes to drop to the correct temperature.

You don't want to overcorrect, and go too cool, and then have to add hot water to bring it back up, etc, but if you stir until the temperature equalizes, adding an ice cube or two (or more if you miss way high, after stirring for at least 5 minutes after adding two), that seems to work well.

 

[Clonefan94]

Does anyone have any kind of times substantiated before it makes a discernible difference to the fermentability of the wort? Are we talking 1 minute, 2 minutes, 10 minutes?

I usually hit strike temps pretty close, using calculators like you guys have linked. But there are those occasions where it's a little colder outside, so I know I'm going to lose a lot of heat just doughing in, so I heat the strike water a few degrees higher. I haven't really brewed enough in every temperature to know exactly what heat I'll use and since I have found it easier to lower the temp, than raise it, this is my course of action. On those days I am worried about it, I usually keep a pitcher of cool water ready to go, to slowly add some water for cooling if needed.

I understand, in an optimal world, we hit everything exact, but on those days where you come in a couple of degrees high, is it worth a panic and get it chilled down a bit ASAP or do you have 5 or 10 minutes before it's really going to change the desired fermentability you were looking for?

 

[Yooper]

Does anyone have any kind of times substantiated before it makes a discernible difference to the fermentability of the wort? Are we talking 1 minute, 2 minutes, 10 minutes?

I usually hit strike temps pretty close, using calculators like you guys have linked. But there are those occasions where it's a little colder outside, so I know I'm going to lose a lot of heat just doughing in, so I heat the strike water a few degrees higher. I haven't really brewed enough in every temperature to know exactly what heat I'll use and since I have found it easier to lower the temp, than raise it, this is my course of action. On those days I am worried about it, I usually keep a pitcher of cool water ready to go, to slowly add some water for cooling if needed.

I understand, in an optimal world, we hit everything exact, but on those days where you come in a couple of degrees high, is it worth a panic and get it chilled down a bit ASAP or do you have 5 or 10 minutes before it's really going to change the desired fermentability you were looking for?

Conversion happens faster at warmer temperatures, so if you miss cool it won't really affect the wort much for a pretty lengthy period of time, although I can't define how many minutes at XXXX temperature that is, as it's a slope.

With a too-warm miss, it can happen pretty fast. For example, with a 156 degree temperature mash with well-modified grains, you could get complete conversion in 20 minutes or maybe even less. Again, it's a slope so it's not like 5 minutes or 10 minutes at a too-high temperature will be defined as "the" limit. And if you let the mash sit and get to the proper temperature, some of the debranching will still occur.

Even if you accidentally hit mash-out temperatures briefly, it's not like ALL of the enzymes would be instantly denatured- even hitting 168 for two minutes wouldn't really create a non-fermentable wort although some enzymes could/would be denatured at that temperature.

 

[Clonefan94]

Thanks Yooper.

So basically yeah, if you are high, better to get it down ASAP and don't sit and wait for it to do it on it's own.

 

[Sweetwort-Hopkins]

Thank you all for the insight and the links to calculators and such!! The above mentioned beer is churning away in the maiden voyage of my fermentation chamber - fridge with a diy temp controller and heating pad.
Hoping for a happy hoppy brew. Next test is to keg and carb with co2 - I force carbed my last batch and accidently super-overcarbed it.

Cheers Y'all

 

[Hammy71]

Thank you all for the insight and the links to calculators and such!! The above mentioned beer is churning away in the maiden voyage of my fermentation chamber - fridge with a diy temp controller and heating pad.
Hoping for a happy hoppy brew. Next test is to keg and carb with co2 - I force carbed my last batch and accidently super-overcarbed it.

Cheers Y'all

Sounds like, you learn as most of us have....the hard way. You'll learn that patience is a virtue. Weather its waiting for you strike water to be the perfect temp, or letting you beer carb slowly for 3 weeks. We were all in a hurry in the beginning. But in the end, most of us learn to relax and let things take their time. You and your beer will be infinitly happier in the end.