Doubling Down: SS Brewtech Conical + FTSS + Glycol Power Pack

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Kim,

I considered what you were thinking, but in the end, to control three fermenters (7 gal, 14 gal, 17 gal), it just made sense to add the new Brew Master controllers from SSBT. I like the heating pads available, and basically by the time I would have spent the money and time to come up with a brewery style glycol loop system it represented a lot of time I can spend elsewhere.

So I have one recirc pump on my chiller to draw the heat from the glycol bath through the heat exchanger. I use three independent pumps to pump through coils in the fermenters. So far, so good, and a good deal more simple.

I’ll worry about brewery-scale engineering when I own a brewery ;)

I guess I can respect the fact that your hobby is just the beer making part but its not the case for many... There are tradeoffs to your system too besides costing a couple hundred dollars extra for convenience. (bigger deal to some than others).

Having three of those little dc pumps kicking on and off every time you need to heat of cool IS more complicated. The pump life is dramatically shortened when used in this fashion they are just like an aquarium powerhead pump being used with a wavemeker.. there is a sideload on the shaft the pump magnet rides on unlike the type of pump used in a chiller granted the pumps SS uses are only $18 on ebay but when they do fail you will have to be on top of it. They will likely last a long time the way you are using them but it is more wear and tear then one heavy duty pump and 4 valves with stc controllers... (I kinda have to laugh because so many who have bashed the tan food grade versions of these same pumps as being cheap unreliable junk probably dont think twice about paying much more for them through SS and using them in these kits.) they are good pumps and I'm not putting them down, I have 7 myself.

I understand and respect your outlook but Too me even $120 for a $15 controller, $18 pump , some hose, powersupply and clamps ($10) is more than I want to pay 4 times over for convenience... The truth is if I were to buy the heating& cooling solution for my 4 conicals from ssbrewtech it would cost me $1300. plus shipping for the equivalent that I built for about $300 Now sure it took me a few hours to research and build, but I dont make $300 an hour at work so to me it was still worth doing myself and coming out ahead..
Sure its more convenient. I could just buy the beer already made too but not everything in life is about convenience for me and since you explained your point of view I threw my 2 cents in on mine.
 
So I got the Chiller yesterday. Its open design at the top, makes it possible to submerge an additional pump (the chiller has a 38 liter reservoir), which removes my incentive to create the Manifold. So for now I'll probably stay off that idea and just use a pump for each fermenter.

Hoping to test the cooling capabilities this week.

I'm also getting a 2nd conical, this time the ½ bbl Brewmaster edt., in a couple of weeks time. They are in back order for the moment. But then I can perhaps report on the CIP solution.

lindr-as-110-bierkoeler-binnekant.png
 
I have the ss clean in place ball valve on my set up its awesome. I go with a hot rinse, a hot pbw wash I pull the valves and clean them. Then I give it another hot time and then sanitize it.

I even made a little half inch copper set up to wash kegs, kettles and buckets. It's awesome
 
Has anyone used the chiller mfabe originally mentioned in his post? I'm thinking of getting that one, but want to make sure there is plenty of room to put multiple pumps in it instead of using motorized ball valves for everything. I ultimately plan to have 3 - 1bbl conicals and just need to verify there is room for all the pumps. Running the numbers the size of the chiller is still adequate for my needs so I can't beat the price.

Thanks for any thoughts and advice.
 
After reading this thread on the glycol chiller and all the other ways of temperature control has helped me make up my mind. Just pulled the trigger on purchasing the BVL glycol chiller from Rapid Wholesale Equipment. I will be using it for my 1/2 barrel and 7 gal SS Brewtech BME fermenters. Thanks goes out to mfabe for starting the discussion and to all that has contributed to the discussion that has pushed me in the right direction.

Hoppy brewing!
 
Has anyone used the chiller mfabe originally mentioned in his post? I'm thinking of getting that one, but want to make sure there is plenty of room to put multiple pumps in it instead of using motorized ball valves for everything. I ultimately plan to have 3 - 1bbl conicals and just need to verify there is room for all the pumps. Running the numbers the size of the chiller is still adequate for my needs so I can't beat the price.

Thanks for any thoughts and advice.

I purchased one and currently have one SS Brewtech pump and an Active Aqua AAPW400 in the reservoir. I am sure a third pump would fit, especially the SS Brewtech pumps. They are quite compact.
 
Fermenting my first beer utilizing the chiller. Chill water is 38F and I'm fermenting a Rauch Märzen at 53F. The chiller cools it down very quickly but I get a bit of temp overshooting. It usually goes down to 52.2 - 52.4 with a set temp of 53F.

I guess I have to options:

1. Raise the temp of my coolant
2. Get a smarter thermostat, that learn from the overshooting and eventually stops the pump at 53.4 or something.

Raising the temp is not really an option, especially when I'll be running two ½ bbl's pretty soon.

On a side note. The fan kicks in for around 5 min for every chill cycle and otherwise stays quiet maintaining the coolant at 38F. So far loving the chiller.
 
Fermenting my first beer utilizing the chiller. Chill water is 38F and I'm fermenting a Rauch Märzen at 53F. The chiller cools it down very quickly but I get a bit of temp overshooting. It usually goes down to 52.2 - 52.4 with a set temp of 53F.

I guess I have to options:

1. Raise the temp of my coolant
2. Get a smarter thermostat, that learn from the overshooting and eventually stops the pump at 53.4 or something.

Raising the temp is not really an option, especially when I'll be running two ½ bbl's pretty soon.

On a side note. The fan kicks in for around 5 min for every chill cycle and otherwise stays quiet maintaining the coolant at 38F. So far loving the chiller.

Do you really think a temporary overshoot of less than 1 degree will have a negative effect on anything?

I have the same... I have a one degree variance set on my controllers.. anything more and the heater would kick on to counteract... never had any issues..
 
Do you really think a temporary overshoot of less than 1 degree will have a negative effect on anything?

Not on the beer. But I'm wondering if it would make the cooling cycles shorter? But hey, I'm just trying to optimize. Probably origins from a long career as a Software Developer :)
 
I guess I can respect the fact that your hobby is just the beer making part but its not the case for many... There are tradeoffs to your system too besides costing a couple hundred dollars extra for convenience. (bigger deal to some than others).

Having three of those little dc pumps kicking on and off every time you need to heat of cool IS more complicated. The pump life is dramatically shortened when used in this fashion they are just like an aquarium powerhead pump being used with a wavemeker.. there is a sideload on the shaft the pump magnet rides on unlike the type of pump used in a chiller granted the pumps SS uses are only $18 on ebay but when they do fail you will have to be on top of it. They will likely last a long time the way you are using them but it is more wear and tear then one heavy duty pump and 4 valves with stc controllers... (I kinda have to laugh because so many who have bashed the tan food grade versions of these same pumps as being cheap unreliable junk probably dont think twice about paying much more for them through SS and using them in these kits.) they are good pumps and I'm not putting them down, I have 7 myself.

I understand and respect your outlook but Too me even $120 for a $15 controller, $18 pump , some hose, powersupply and clamps ($10) is more than I want to pay 4 times over for convenience... The truth is if I were to buy the heating& cooling solution for my 4 conicals from ssbrewtech it would cost me $1300. plus shipping for the equivalent that I built for about $300 Now sure it took me a few hours to research and build, but I dont make $300 an hour at work so to me it was still worth doing myself and coming out ahead..
Sure its more convenient. I could just buy the beer already made too but not everything in life is about convenience for me and since you explained your point of view I threw my 2 cents in on mine.

Spot on! My hobby is making really good beer and experimenting with new ideas in brewing, not designing brewing systems. The all-electric RIMS rig I brew on was picked up second hand from a guy who had the time to figure out and assemble all that stuff. I’ve made a few improvements over time which suit my brewing needs.

Since my circ pump on the chiller has to run at all times to keep the glycol going through the HX, if that were my sole source of circulation, I’d have to run a bypass loop that would need to close when a fermenter(s) calls for cooling. Then you need to calculate pressure drops and make certain each fermenter gets adequate flow if all three are calling for cooling at the same time.

I have a very high mechanical aptitude and I’m capable of putting together things like a glycol loop, but not all of us have the luxury of time and I didn’t care to clutter a part of a wall on my garage with a PVC loop, solenoids, and strainers. That’s why I chose a plug-and-play solution. This was one of those things where KISS made more sense to me.

I’m fortunate to even have time to brew when I do as my wife and I have many different interests so time is the least available of my commodities.
 
So after 4 days of diacetyl rest @ 66F, I set the Thermostat to 38F. It took my chiller just about 3 hours to reach it with 16 gallons in the conical. More than pleased with that result
 
So after 4 days of diacetyl rest @ 66F, I set the Thermostat to 38F. It took my chiller just about 3 hours to reach it with 16 gallons in the conical. More than pleased with that result

Kim, you are going to be amazed at the major leap your beer making just made by having this kind of temp control.

Cheers!
 
Kim, you are going to be amazed at the major leap your beer making just made by having this kind of temp control.

Cheers!

You are right. But I sort of had the control previously. Just a manual process rotating frozen bottles. So glad that period is history :)
 
As you can se the pump has a power cable (located in the top) which you can insert beneath the green manual switch. That's a standard PC power cable. Since we use 240V here I assume it's a 240V pump but I do not know for sure yet as the chiller is still in the mail. Should arrive Friday.

View attachment 349032

Hello. Planning to order this chiller but have few questions. Is the built in pump 240V or 12V? Is there enough space in water reservoir for the FTSs's own pump? How loud is the chiller when it's running? Overkill or not as I only have one 7gal conical at the moment?
 
Hello. Planning to order this chiller but have few questions. Is the built in pump 240V or 12V? Is there enough space in water reservoir for the FTSs's own pump? How loud is the chiller when it's running? Overkill or not as I only have one 7gal conical at the moment?

The pump is 230V. So you can control it with a STC 1000 or an InkBird.

There is plenty of space in the reservoir for additional pumps. I would think you can add a handful of FTSs pumps because they are rather small.

How loud is it? According to the manufacturer all of their chillers are less than 45 db. The good thing is that the fan only kicks in when it's chilling you fermenter. And my experience is that it's around 5 min for every hour when doing a lager. Even less with ales I presume.

Maybe a bit strong for 7 Gal, but you will be glad you bought it when adding additional og larger conicals. If you do not plan for that, then I think the AS-80 might be good enough for your needs.
 
Ok. Great. Thanks for answering. My batch size is 20l, and don't think that I'm going to change it any time soon. I might get more 7gal conicals to be able to ferment different beers at the same time, so extra power isn't bad thing. Price difference between as-110 and as-80 is only 40€, so would be stupid not to buy the more powerful one!=)
 
Ok. Great. Thanks for answering. My batch size is 20l, and don't think that I'm going to change it any time soon. I might get more 7gal conicals to be able to ferment different beers at the same time, so extra power isn't bad thing. Price difference between as-110 and as-80 is only 40€, so would be stupid not to buy the more powerful one!=)

My thought exactly when I made my choice :)
 
Another option for a chiller for those in the market, is SSbrewtech just sent out an email saying they are going to be releasing their own glycol chiller in the sub $1000 range. Curious to see how that works out. They are also releasing some brite tanks for homebrewers coming up which I will definitely be buying.
 
Thanks for the tip. Didn't notice that part when read the the email first time. They didn't mention anything about voltage. Need 230V so if it's 110V it's a show stopper. Very tempted to buy Lindr As-110, but quess I'll wait some weeks and check out what SS BT has to offer!
 
The SS Brewtech chiller is coming to Europe end of this year earliest, so think I got to go with Lindr!
 
If I posted in the wrong forum and this should be in the DIY forum, Mods please move it for me!

So for the last 4 months or so I’ve been using my chest freezer/keezer as a chill water source for my SS Brewtech 14 gallon conical with FTSS temp control system. Essentially I rigged it up as displayed in the picture; by installing customized bulkheads through the freezer wall and locating the pump in a 5 gallon corny keg. Since I’m located in Southern California, my fermentation area fluctuates between the high 60s and mid-to-high 70s ambient, depending on the season and time of day/night.

IMG_1194_zpsl7o62eaw.jpg


As a result, holding ale fermentation temps has not been a problem, as I can easy maintain a low 60’s primary fermentation point for cleaner ales or hefes etc. The problem came about when I attempted to crash cool or hold lager temps. Furthermore, now that were moving into the spring/summer months the load on the freezer and subsequent “compressor cycles” have been more and more frequent.

Since I would keep the freezer/chill source on the edge of freezing, the initial temp drop I received was fantastic. But upon further use, I found that the freezer wasn’t able to produce a recovery rate that was sufficient enough to keep the conical at lower temps for extended periods. I even tried adding crappy vodka in an attempt to lower the freezing temp of the chill water, and therefore the freezer thermostat, but I experienced very little incremental gain. The problem is obviously more structural.

Since the evaporator coils are merely chilling the air inside the freezer, and that in turn would remove heat from the chill water inside the keg, the cycle in which to maintain and recover a low enough temp simply took too long. The other problem is that I only have 5 gallons of chill water to cool 12ish gallons of beer. Plus the smaller compressors in most chest freezers, 1/8-1/6 HP, could not provide the BTUs/Hr to remove the heat that was absorbed by the chill water.

I found that the compressor ran much longer and more often since it was naturally not designed to remove any more heat than was lost naturally by the freezer’s insulation. I should preface that by saying that I think most users with the brew bucket and 7 gallon Chronical should be able to get by with this setup, but for the 14 gallon/half barrel Chronicals, there is no way the freezer can handle the load.

So my goals for a new system were essentially two-fold:
1) I wanted to invest in a long term solution that I can use for all the potentially necessary fermentation/cellaring functions, including lagering, crash cooling… etc.

2) I wanted the system to be expandable so that I can potentially daisy-chain more fermenters, so excess cooling capacity was a consideration

I looked at a ton of the DIY window A/C unit glycol chillers on HBT but I felt that they were never designed to serve the intended purpose, and through my eyes they appeared in pictures to be inefficient, clunky, and just plain god-awful looking. I know that many will disagree, yet its common knowledge that refrigerant high/low pressure configurations in addition to compressor, evaporator, and condenser size/configuration are designed with inherent efficiencies for a specific application.

So I started researching alternatives and decided to use a trunk-line power-pack type glycol chiller, which in turn provides more than enough BTU’s/Hr to chill and crash cool 3-4 times the amount of beer I was seeking to ferment. Just to verify my hunches I jetted over to probrewer.com to read up on the amount of BTU’s/hr that many commercial breweries were using to maintain and crash their insulated conicals. Now I realize that the SS Brewtech’s conical neoprene jacket doesn't have the same insulation factor that a double-wall jacketed poly-injected conical does, but it’s a point of reference worth researching.

Using this type of calculation (http://amchiller.com/size-brewery-chiller/ ) I would need at least 213 BTUs/Hr to pull down the fully-loaded fermenter by 41 degrees (75 minus 34) over 24 hours. Which isn’t very much, but that doesn’t factor in active fermentation and/or insulation loss very precisely… So I figured I would triple that figure and I could essentially turn the conical into a block of ice within 12 hours.

Looking at most of the glycol power packs on the market, they are extremely oversized and also extremely expensive for this purpose. I didn’t need to have a 7-10 gallon glycol bath, I didn’t need 5000+ BTUs/Hr, and I didn’t want to spend over $1K. Moreover, I was concerned about energy efficiency, and hoped that due to decreased compressor runtime and cycling, the chiller would be just-as or more energy efficient than my chest freezer rig.

IMG_1294_zps5ow2ievn.jpg


So I scoured the interweb and chose what I thought was the best price when calculated at dollars per BTU/Hr. I purchased the BVL Controls Eco 33, 1/3 HP 3 gallon bath chiller from Rapids Wholesale (no sales tax plus free shipping!). For those that don’t know, or think that BVL is a no-name brand, they are a Canadian company that has been an OEM supplier of Micro Matic’s for forever and a day…. So the quality and fit-and-finish was everything that I expected for the price. For a point of reference the compressor/condenser pack was nearly the same Tecumseh units that UBC are using in their chillers.

The Eco 33 unit provides 2300 BTU/Hr of cooling capacity, and also has a pump (50GPH) that can actually be utilized in place of the small FTSS system 12v pump. The flow rates align pretty well, and it wasn’t extremely oversized for this purpose.

IMG_1296_zpsxifaid1c.jpg


IMG_1297_zpsjntgmhli.jpg

(In the pics I have it configured for the FTSS pump)

After receiving the chiller, I rewired the pump from a “constant on” configuration to a Johnson A419 temp controller, with the Johnson controls thermocoupling fitting perfectly into the supplied FTSS thermowell. That way the Chiller’s thermostat will maintain the glycol temp in the high 20s-low 30s and the Johnson will maintain the conical’s temp at any desired factor within about 5-10 degrees above the glycol temp. I also have some added peace of mind since the chiller’s pump is designed to be run constantly; so I don’t have to worry about long run times (except for the fact that I don’t want the beer to freeze in the conical). The only downside is the pump is louder since its not dampened by being submerged in the glycol bath. I’m still running tests on which pump and thermostat combo I prefer more.

IMG_1295_zpsqofk5rm4.jpg


The other convenient feature of this chiller is that it came “plumbed” from the factory with 3/8” barbs (more than likely for a glycol draught tower), so the chiller links right up to the FTSS coil, no modifications needed. I chose to go with thick wall silicone tubing (3/16” wall), due to the fact it remains extremely flexible even at sub-freezing temps, plus it’s an added layer of insulation. It won’t harden like PVC or vinyl tubing.

IMG_1293_zpsccyoaqrs.jpg


Although I’ve only processed one batch through the new system, my initial impressions are extremely positive. The compressor barely has to cycle in comparison to the chest freezer to maintain temps, and the temp drops extremely rapidly in a crash-cool scenario. In my tests using just water, it can drop the temp 30+ degrees inside of an hour if I’m really pushing it! Although it may be just one man’s opinion, this system is a must have for warm weather climates, or for homebrewers fermenting inside a garage where ambient temps can spike into the 80s and 90s.

The only downside is the added noise, which sounds like an average run of the mill hermetically sealed compressor on top of a good sized bedroom fan running at the same time. Ideally, this would be in a garage, so you wouldn’t ever notice the sound, and the plus side is that it doesn’t have to run very long.

I realize that many homebrewers will think this design is crazy overkill, and that I could have achieved the same results for less than half the cost. Yet those same people should identify with the fact that I’m pretty picky when it comes to my brewing equipment, and realize that there are countless other home brewers that would be interested in emulating my setup. Furthermore, I think this system will offer me a good amount of expandability.

I’m happy to field questions or run additional tests for anyone interested. Yet, I think that for what I’m seeking to accomplish with my home brewery that it couldn’t get any more perfect. Cheers!

1 year old thread... WHERE HAVE I BEEN?? DUDE!!!! That is AMAZING! Well done! Bravo! I like!!! Stupid clean set up.

Cheers
Jay
 
So after 4 days of diacetyl rest @ 66F, I set the Thermostat to 38F. It took my chiller just about 3 hours to reach it with 16 gallons in the conical. More than pleased with that result

How is that possible? Isn't AS-110 watertank coldest temperature setting 4C=39.2F? How can it chill the conical to 38F (or even colder???) I'm missing something!
Waiting for my unit to arrive. Having little bit of "hang over" of the money spent! Really hope that the coldest setting is enough cold for cold crashing! Some people suggest that you should cold crash down to 32F...
 
How is that possible? Isn't AS-110 watertank coldest temperature setting 4C=39.2F? How can it chill the conical to 38F (or even colder???) I'm missing something!
Waiting for my unit to arrive. Having little bit of "hang over" of the money spent! Really hope that the coldest setting is enough cold for cold crashing! Some people suggest that you should cold crash down to 32F...

It actually chills the water down to around 32F. Ice is created around the coils and I'm sure if you use Glycol you can go below 32F.
 
The one I bought(same as the OP) has the lowest temp setting of 27°F. When I cold crash to 32°F, the lowest I can usually get the fermenter to drop to is 34-35°F..
 
I emailed them to ask what the difference between what they are offering and the Eco-33 for $90 cheaper (does not include shipping costs).


I'm wondering the same - especially because they removed the stock glycol recirc pump ... So at first blush there's less material costs yet the product is more expensive...
 
Hey mfabe, do you know the difference between the SS and Eco-33. I see someone inquired about it, but they have posted response.
 
Here is the response I received from SSBT regarding the difference versus the Eco-30.

"Our chiller is based on the BVL Controls Eco 33, however, we have redesigned it to accept up to 4 FTSs loops right out of the box. Instead of the trunk line operation is was originally designed for. We have taken it one step further and adapted it for use with our FTSs kits. This allows a user to easily fill the chiller up with a glycol/water mix, drop their new or existing FTSs pump in the reservoir, and then connect their tubing to finish the loop."

So there you have it. Cheers!
 
Do you have any sneak peak pics of their new brite tank? I've been waiting for pics ever since they announced it.

Nice setup by the way!
 
I purchased the Eco-33 from Rapids in February for $869. Shipping was free via FedEx Economy Freight (to a commercial address).
If SSBT had offered their version at the time, I likely would've bought it, even at $975 and without the pump, just to avoid the hassle of modifying the lid.
As it turned out, not only did I save money, but with the pump I can chill my Tower and still have room for the FTSS pumps to chill my 1 barrel BME Chronical and (future) Brite Tank.

Unrelated, but the CIP ball + submersible pump + bucket heater combo SSBT suggests is amazing, almost justifies getting the Chronical because of the huge time saving for cleanup!
 
SSBT has posted some more photo's of their glycol chiller. So basically it appear they are just pulling the lid which houses the pump. I am not sure if they are modifying the lid for the FTSS. It doesn't appear that they made the glycol bath any larger. So it seems that purchasing the Eco-33 would have more versatility. And if I could save 100 bucks, then I can upgrade my older chronical with some butterfly valves.

mfabe.... How many ftss submersible pumps do you think you could fit into the reservoir? Do you see it work the extra 100 bucks and if you could do it over again would you go with your original Eco. Any assistance would be appreciated.
 
Sorry - I'm coming in so late on this thread but I just noticed it yesterday.

I'm in the early stages of designing my glycol set up and had a couple of question...

The original post shows a system whereby the chill source is a 5 gallon corny keg inside a chest freezer. Would it make a substantial difference if that source was say 25 gallons of glycol/water mix for a 1/2 bbl conical? Or is it simply that the freezer can't get rid of/compensate for the heat fast enough for that volume of wort? It seems like that volume of coolant should be able to hold the lesser volume of wort at temp - no??


Much thanks!


dmc
 
Sorry - I'm coming in so late on this thread but I just noticed it yesterday.

I'm in the early stages of designing my glycol set up and had a couple of question...

The original post shows a system whereby the chill source is a 5 gallon corny keg inside a chest freezer. Would it make a substantial difference if that source was say 25 gallons of glycol/water mix for a 1/2 bbl conical? Or is it simply that the freezer can't get rid of/compensate for the heat fast enough for that volume of wort? It seems like that volume of coolant should be able to hold the lesser volume of wort at temp - no??


Much thanks!


dmc

The best way I can explain the short-fall of this approach is that you lose too much efficiency cooling your liquid by air instead of direct contact with the refrigerant via a coil.

I don’t know the actual efficiency loss, but essentially, if you could immerse your evaporator coil in the liquid, your efficiency should increase by 30-40% would be my guess.
 
Back
Top