Doubling Down: SS Brewtech Conical + FTSS + Glycol Power Pack

[prosperbrews]

I have 33% glycol to water. Yes I have perfect flow through the coil.

Just pulled the coil - no ice. Now I am really stumped.

I did find one thing that seems odd. I have braided vinyl tubing to and from the glycol chiller. Right before the connections to the unitanks I use quick disconnects very similar to others in this thread. On the input side, the tubing appears to fully pressurize, or be full with glycol. On the output side, the first part of tubing before the quick connect is fully pressurized but then it turns to less flow just after the quick connect fitting going back into the glycol chiller. I’d say the tubing is maybe 30% full just after the quick connect fitting. I pulled up the lid on the glycol chiller to see the glycol return and it seems like a pretty good flow. There’s not much else I can troubleshoot

I’m sitting at about 46 F right now and it won’t budge. I read others are hitting crash temps in 8 hours.

 

[Tartan1]

Just pulled the coil - no ice. Now I am really stumped.

I did find one thing that seems odd. I have braided vinyl tubing to and from the glycol chiller. Right before the connections to the unitanks I use quick disconnects very similar to others in this thread. On the input side, the tubing appears to fully pressurize, or be full with glycol. On the output side, the first part of tubing before the quick connect is fully pressurized but then it turns to less flow just after the quick connect fitting going back into the glycol chiller. I’d say the tubing is maybe 30% full just after the quick connect fitting. I pulled up the lid on the glycol chiller to see the glycol return and it seems like a pretty good flow. There’s not much else I can troubleshoot

I’m sitting at about 46 F right now and it won’t budge. I read others are hitting crash temps in 8 hours.

When you say there is 30% after the fitting that would indicate to me you have air in the line which needs to be purged. That would explain the lack of cooling efficiency.

 

[prosperbrews]

When you say there is 30% after the fitting that would indicate to me you have air in the line which needs to be purged. That would explain the lack of cooling efficiency.

I’ve switched fittings from side to side and even reversed the flow of glycol to rule out any issues with the fittings. The result is the same in any configuration. I suspect the flow is less when exiting the coil simply due to head loss from traveling the distance of the coil. The flow of glycol into the chiller is smooth and consistent.

 

[Tartan1]

I’ve switched fittings from side to side and even reversed the flow of glycol to rule out any issues with the fittings. The result is the same in any configuration. I suspect the flow is less when exiting the coil simply due to head loss from traveling the distance of the coil. The flow of glycol into the chiller is smooth and consistent.

The fittings may not be the problem. I'm thinking of the whole system from chiller thru the coil back to the chiller may have air in it somewhere. Along the same line as when wort is moved throughout the system using pumps and air in the lines causes cavitation. In that case an air bleed valve is used to purge a particular pump.

 

[prosperbrews]

The fittings may not be the problem. I'm thinking of the whole system from chiller thru the coil back to the chiller may have air in it somewhere. Along the same line as when wort is moved throughout the system using pumps and air in the lines causes cavitation. In that case an air bleed valve is used to purge a particular pump.

The tubing is clear and there doesn’t appear to be any air bubbles flowing through. When I turn off the pump some air bubbles rise up from the return piping - but as soon as I turn it back on the air bubbles are quickly purged and it’s back to smooth flow.

 

[Tartan1]

The tubing is clear and there doesn’t appear to be any air bubbles flowing through. When I turn off the pump some air bubbles rise up from the return piping - but as soon as I turn it back on the air bubbles are quickly purged and it’s back to smooth flow.

If there is air anywhere between the start and end points it will affect the cooling efficiency. You indicate that by shutting off the pump, air (bubbles) is sucked back thru the return line. Is the return line submerged in the glycol bath. It needs to be a closed system from end to end, in that once air is completely purged from the system no air (bubbles) should be present.
You can have what is perceived as a good flow exiting the return line and still have air in the system. That could explain the 30% line volume after the first fitting.

 

[prosperbrews]

If there is air anywhere between the start and end points it will affect the cooling efficiency. You indicate that by shutting off the pump, air (bubbles) is sucked back thru the return line. Is the return line submerged in the glycol bath. It needs to be a closed system from end to end, in that once air is completely purged from the system no air (bubbles) should be present.
You can have what is perceived as a good flow exiting the return line and still have air in the system. That could explain the 30% line volume after the first fitting.

Return line is completely submerged. What I am seeing may not be air bubbles and just be the purging of glycol from the return line once the pump is shut off as the result of gravity

Anyone else with a similar setup have any guesses as to what’s amiss? Is your glycol return line fully pressurized with glycol using the ss brewtech Ftss pump?

 

[marjen]

Are you doing a full batch or half batch in the unitank?

 

[prosperbrews]

5.5 gallons in 7 gallon unitank

 

[marjen]

Hmm ok. Yeah you should be fine. I have been having some issues getting much below 40 f but I am doing 6 gallons in the 14 gallon tank.

 

[prosperbrews]

I gave up on the cold crash and started carbing last night. Plan to move to a keg today.

The unitank never made it below 45F - pretty disappointing. I tested and re tested every single variable and there really is no explanation as to why. The glycol chiller had no problem keeping the glycol at 28F.

 

[Morrey]

Something is not exactly right somewhere. With my Penguin chiller, I can chill a 7G Uni tank and hold it at 35F as long as desired. And this is with the ambient temps in the mid-90F's in my non-temp controlled outside brew cave. Gut feeling is that your glycol flow is restricted.....have you checked the pump impeller to see if any trash is wrapped around the shaft or otherwise blocking or restricting flow?

 

[prosperbrews]

Something is not exactly right somewhere. With my Penguin chiller, I can chill a 7G Uni tank and hold it at 35F as long as desired. And this is with the ambient temps in the mid-90F's in my non-temp controlled outside brew cave. Gut feeling is that your glycol flow is restricted.....have you checked the pump impeller to see if any trash is wrapped around the shaft or otherwise blocking or restricting flow?

That’s what I’m thinking too. It’s not the chiller itself. It has to be something with the pump or the coil itself. I will get a chance to inspect everything in more detail tonight.

Edit: disassembled the pump to inspect and everything looked good. I noticed when I started it back up I had air in the lines which i was able to correct by adjusting the pump and turning it on and off. I had the air in the line problem during my initial crash although this has since been corrected, I’m wondering if air in the coil somehow made it ice up inside the coil which may be insulating the glycol.

The glycol flow is smooth - no air and no obstructions. Pump is good. It’s got to be a frozen internal coil or a faulty coil.

 

[marjen]

Have you contacted SSBT yet? They are usually pretty good about helping out.

 

[prosperbrews]

Have you contacted SSBT yet? They are usually pretty good about helping out.

Yes, I logged a ticket with ss brewtech. Will see what they say.

As I was cleaning the unitank tonight I stared at the coil for a moment trying to figure out what might have happened. It looks as though I may have had the glycol entering the loop through the wrong way. From the picture, I had the glycol entering from the right side, which drops it all the way to the bottom of the coil and then forces the pump to push the glycol up through the coil. This would create significantly more head loss than the other way and slow flow. This might be it? Any validation to this theory?

Although this first batch was frustrating with the cold crash, the beer turned out amazing!

 

[marjen]

Hmm I have mine connected the same way you do. I just looked at what documentation I could find from them and do not see any recommendations on which way is correct. I have had trouble getting much below 40, maybe I will try switching and see if it makes a difference.

And that beer looks good.

 

[Morrey]

I never gave it much thought that the pump has to work any harder (or less work) depending on the direction of flow. I don't think that Ss says the inlet is on the left and the outlet is on the right...or vice versa. This factor may make a small amount of difference in the flow rate with gravity aiding as you say, so that's worth a look.

Now that you have an empty tank and can inspect w/o exposing beer to O2, all should be easier to track now. I'd start with the pump and carefully take off the cover to expose the impeller. The shaft may be binding so see how easily the pump turns. You can also force water thru the tank's cooling coils to make sure there is no obstruction...it could easily be an obstruction there as a manufacturing defect. And double check your lines/hoses from your chiller to the tank to make sure nothing is crimped or bound up.

I'll be interested in the response you get from Ss.

EDIT: I just looked at my tanks inlets and outlets and direction of flow. I have two setup dropping down then pumping back uphill, with the other tank the opposite with gravity aiding. I have never seen a disparity between the cooling potential with either setup. I honestly believe this makes little or no difference.

 

[Tartan1]

Found this link.... https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0..._Product_Guide_FINAL.pdf?14033054371399362451 (Page 2 Figure 1)

Is there a correlation between your thermowell location and direction of glycol flow in the coil itself? In other words could you be measuring the warmer bottom portion or top portion depending on the temp inversion of the wort as discussed in the article. It appears there could be a difference cold crash temps and fermentation temps depending on which side of the coil the flow enters.

 

[Tozzi]

Interesting! I've never heard of this phenomenon before.
It explains the differences in measurement between the readings of my iSpindle (which floats on top of the beer/wort) and the readings from the thermowell.
Will keep that in mind.

From perspective of flow rate, I don't see why this would make any difference, however.
But I guess connecting it as shown in the picture on the right (which is what I have always done so far) could help initially getting rid of air bubbles.

By the way, my 3/8 HP Chiller arrived today, finally.
It looks awesome, really nice craftsmanship there. Simple, sturdy design.
I'll test it thoroughly as soon as I get a friend over to help me carry it down to the basement.
It came without printed manual, but the Quick Start Guide is online now:
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0...ick_start_guide_5-11.pdf?16130065885485982426

 

[Tartan1]

Interesting! I've never heard of this phenomenon before.
It explains the differences in measurement between the readings of my iSpindle (which floats on top of the beer/wort) and the readings from the thermowell.
Will keep that in mind.

From perspective of flow rate, I don't see why this would make any difference, however.
But I guess connecting it as shown in the picture on the right (which is what I have always done so far) could help initially getting rid of air bubbles.

I agree I don't think flow rate in this instance would make a difference however when you look at the coil as 2 different lengths (the shorter piece being the straight piece to the bottom of the coil) it makes sense that when the warmer area of the beer is at the bottom of the fermenter as when temps under 40F are achieved and the inversion has taken place then you would want the coldest temperature of the glycol to spend more time making it's way thru the coil (the longer part) from the bottom up when cold crashing. You are then targeting the warmest part of the fermenter with an express route of cold glycol to the bottom. With the small volumes we ferment (5-10Gal) I'm not sure how influential the inversion factor would be, however I believe that is the theory they are using.

 

[czmkid]

You know...Ive never seen how I have the lines attached to my coils. Don’t even know if I’ve hooked them both up the same way. I just started crash cooling both tanks today. Usually drop it to 35 and it gets there. We will see if this happens on my covered patio in TX heat. 91deg here today. Glycol revisor at 28 deg factor setting.

 

[Tozzi]

@Tartan1:
Absolutely. But, like you mention, does this really make a difference (at the volumes we typically work with, i.e. 5 to 17 Gal.)?
Especially with the really long coils the Ss Fermenters (Unitanks) come with? I would expect temperatures to be quite equal on input and output sides, normally, when there's no blockage of any kind.
Regarding flow rate, I was just referring to the problems prosperbrews has with his setup, as mentioned above...

 

[RevKev]

Anybody seen this, haven't been on MoreBeer on a while looks oddly familiar and a lot cheaper... With some less functionality but. Yeah. That's a lot cheaper..

https://www.morebeer.com/products/icemaster-glycol-chiller.html

 

[Morrey]

I noted when I checked, I had two tanks (the 14G and one 7G) with the inlet dropping straight down the pipe, then turning back up toward the outlet. The other 7G tank had the inlet entering the coil, then went back up the straight pipe to return. I really didn't pay much attention to the orientation as I don't remember that Ss said it mattered.

Long and short, I have never seen a difference when comparing the cooling power side by side. I've had both 7G tanks (these are the ones that are inletted opposite) running side by side and neither seemed to have a different cycling time. Since the ambient conditions are the same, I can compare realistically.

I suppose if we looked more closely at the cooling dynamics of one setup compared to another, we may find there is some academic difference. But in real life situations, I have noted no discernable difference to be aware of.

 

[prosperbrews]

Great conversation but sounds like folks are getting acceptable performance in either direction - it is interesting that ss brewtech doesn’t address this while spike makes specific recommendations based on holding temps vs cold crashing.

I still need to figure out why my unitank cant get below 45f with 75f ambient temps. Something is definitely off - I’m still stumped and it appears Ss is as well - they have not responded to my ticket yet.

 

[Morrey]

Have you had a chance to look at the pumps output to see if it’s pumping at full volume?

 

[prosperbrews]

Have you had a chance to look at the pumps output to see if it’s pumping at full volume?

The pump seems fine to me - I completely disassembled it and everything looks good - no blockages. The glycol lines going to and from the unitank are fully pressurized and when I pull up the lid on the glycol chiller there is a steady stream of glycol flowing through the copper pipe back into the reservoir. The glycol is cooled to 28, verified with a thermapen. The beer inside is truly at 45-46 also verified with a thermapen (ruling out the temp probe as the issue). Unitank is fully jacketed. Ambient temps were 75f the entire time controlled by a dedicated ac for the brew room. This was a full batch (5.5 gallons) in the 7 g unitank. ABV of 5.5%. It. Makes. No. Sense

 

[martianpc]

I think it's an inherent shortcoming of using a coil instead of a jacketed fermenter. I have a great deal of difficulty getting mine under 40 degrees with a 12 gallon batch in my 14 gallon unitank. I ended up having to drop my glycol temperature underneath 28 by a good bit in order to get there. In the end I ended up freezing some of the beer. I personally think that the neoprene jacket is just inferior to the insulation that would be necessary considering the surface size of the coil. There just doesn't seem to be enough contact area on the coil. I'm trying to figure out a way to better insulate the unitank going forward.

 

[Tozzi]

The glycol is cooled to 28, verified with a thermapen. The beer inside is truly at 45-46 also verified with a thermapen (ruling out the temp probe as the issue).

I just stumbled across this article on their FAQ, perhaps this is the case with your setup?
https://ssbrewtech.zendesk.com/hc/e...than-40-degrees-when-I-crash-cool-what-gives-
Just trying to find an explanation.
When cold crashing my current batch, I think I ran into a similar problem. Temp wouldn't go lower than 3˚C.
I at first blamed my Grainfather Glycol Chiller, but once I raised the temp to 4˚C and then lowered it back to 1˚C, it suddenly worked.
I did not open the Unitank, because it is (naturally) pressurized.

My new 3/8 HP Ss Brewtech Chiller is still sitting there, need to go buy some Aquadest tomorrow. The plug adapter (mine shipped with an UK plug) arrived today.
Review follows, so far I'm impressed by the sturdy, almost "steampunk" like design (or the lack thereof).
This is what happens when you let engineers do their thing. Nice. Form follows function, without any compromises.

 

[Joe17]

Guys I just ordered the 1/2 barrel unitank and I am looking for a cip pump for the 1” spray ball I picked up from brewers hardware . It says it works from 15-100psi and the 40-60 range works best. Do you guys know of a good pump for the job?