Don't crush where you brew?

[atoughram]

I can see that being a problem. But the fact is that by the time you are dry hopping, or transfering, there is so much alcohol content in the beer, its not a great place for bacteria to live. Otherwise there would be a need to sanitize the hops before dry hopping. How much dust, dirt and micro buggies are on the outside of the hop pellets? Or even worse, whole cones?

The alcohol helps kill most of the bugs on dry hops - that why we dont worry about it too much.

I spray the inside of my conical down with starsan and seal it back up, then mill grains within 5 feet of it. I've NEVER had a problem. Probably because I'm a business major, not a microbiology major...

When it's time to pump the wort into the conical and pitch yeast, I'll dump the collected starsan out of the dump valve and pump the wort into the conical via the racking arm, all sealed up except the blow off vent. I open the top of the conical up to run an O2 stone and to pitch the yeast, and then it's sealed up for a few weeks. All within five feet of where I milled the grain.

 

[SwAMi75]

Probably because I'm a business major, not a microbiology major...

lol

 

[kh54s10]

Sanitize all you want, you still can't fight the floating wild yeast and floating lacto :rockin:

Then why sanitize at all?

Thats silly

The point of the game is to mitigate as many chances for infections as possible without introducing unnecessary risk. Milling outside your brew area doesn't seem like that big of a deal.

So I am saying that my understanding is that you sanitize to kill wild yeast, and bacteria.

I have milled my grain within 3-5 feet of my empty fermenters for 5 years, I then sanitize before filling with wort.

My milling IS NOT in my brewing area, and is not where my fermentation occurs.

This just seems like the guy who did videos wearing a dust mask and gloves and was totally anal about germs etc.

 

[cannman]

I allways thought it was the "explosion hazard" was the reason to mill away from where you brew and not about a possible lacto infection.

Not sure if you mean bottle bombs or some kind of explosion from propane/mill friction

You do understand that whether you mill or not all that stuff is in the air anyways right? Just keep it simple...

1. Fill your carboy with sanitizer.
2. Have cold side gear soaking in sanitizer.
3. Wait until your about to use said gear to take it out of the sanitizer so everything stays clean.
4. ?
5. Profit

So tell me step 4: How do you keep floating lacto from a mill that occurred in the same room from entering your brew when you need to dry hop??

I can see that being a problem. But the fact is that by the time you are dry hopping, or transfering, there is so much alcohol content in the beer, its not a great place for bacteria to live. Otherwise there would be a need to sanitize the hops before dry hopping. How much dust, dirt and micro buggies are on the outside of the hop pellets? Or even worse, whole cones?

The thing about lacto or acetobacter that it will keep chewing your wort to like 0.998

So I am saying that my understanding is that you sanitize to kill wild yeast, and bacteria.

I have milled my grain within 3-5 feet of my empty fermenters for 5 years, I then sanitize before filling with wort.

My milling IS NOT in my brewing area, and is not where my fermentation occurs.

This just seems like the guy who did videos wearing a dust mask and gloves and was totally anal about germs etc.

This situation sounds fine, especially if it's outdoors... The damage is live bugs in a closed area with poor venting that can't rid of bad guys introduced in the air.

I don't know about the gloves, but the dust mask isn't a bad idea... I mean, I want to live long enough to die from a funk liver, not black lung...

 

[kh54s10]

I don't know about the gloves, but the dust mask isn't a bad idea... I mean, I want to live long enough to die from a funk liver, not black lung...

I forget who the guy was who did the videos, but it was totally overboard. He was not using the dust masks to keep from inhaling milling dust, he was wearing them to keep his "breath" from contaminating his brewing equipment. He also used some sort of cream all the way up his arms to keep from contaminating the equipment, then pulled long sleeves back down over the "treated" arms and hands, then used vinyl gloves......

 

[SwAMi75]

Not sure if you mean bottle bombs or some kind of explosion from propane/mill friction



So tell me step 4: How do you keep floating lacto from a mill that occurred in the same room from entering your brew when you need to dry hop??



The thing about lacto or acetobacter that it will keep chewing your wort to like 0.998




This situation sounds fine, especially if it's outdoors... The damage is live bugs in a closed area with poor venting that can't rid of bad guys introduced in the air.

I don't know about the gloves, but the dust mask isn't a bad idea... I mean, I want to live long enough to die from a funk liver, not black lung...

I didn't realize when I replied that you started this thread, after having recently discovered the lacto/grain connection, and were the one asking for advice. Then after a number of replies, you call the people who tried to give you real-world advice "lazy" and lacking an understanding of basic chemistry.

So let's go back to before your OP here.....were you having an infection problem in your process? Trying to nail down a potential issue?

 

[cannman]

I forget who the guy was who did the videos, but it was totally overboard. He was not using the dust masks to keep from inhaling milling dust, he was wearing them to keep his "breath" from contaminating his brewing equipment. He also used some sort of cream all the way up his arms to keep from contaminating the equipment, then pulled long sleeves back down over the "treated" arms and hands, then used vinyl gloves......

Ahhh! Well, I do wear a mask with plating... and yeah, you can transmit stuff via breath (I'm not sure if they are food spoiling bacteria though)...but during brewing after proper sanitation... nope... too much! HOWEVER... it is the ultimate status. I wonder how often he sanitized his gloves...

 

[MaryB]

I have waist length hair I put back in a pony tail. Couple brew sessions back I dropped something and leaned over to pick it up and sanitize it and proceeded to dunk the end of my pony tail in the wort. Fermented and tasted fine!

 

[cannman]

I have waist length hair I put back in a pony tail. Couple brew sessions back I dropped something and leaned over to pick it up and sanitize it and proceeded to dunk the end of my pony tail in the wort. Fermented and tasted fine!

This doesn't help the premise of the question: mitigating risk. I'm happy for your pony tail ale though...

 

[beergolf]

I forget who the guy was who did the videos, but it was totally overboard. He was not using the dust masks to keep from inhaling milling dust, he was wearing them to keep his "breath" from contaminating his brewing equipment. He also used some sort of cream all the way up his arms to keep from contaminating the equipment, then pulled long sleeves back down over the "treated" arms and hands, then used vinyl gloves......

This is the guy you are thinking about. If I would have seen this before I started brewing I probably would have never started.

[ame]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kJocMX7Ex-Y[/ame]

 

[KeyWestBrewing]

So tell me step 4: How do you keep floating lacto from a mill that occurred in the same room from entering your brew when you need to dry hop??

You don't and its in the air even if you don't mill. Hops inhibit lacto activity anyways but Im pretty convinced at this point your just trolling. Your lucky theres no negs on this forum :rockin:

 

[kh54s10]

This is the guy you are thinking about. If I would have seen this before I started brewing I probably would have never started.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kJocMX7Ex-Y

That is him. And he made at least two videos with the overboard caution. That is not the one I watched years ago. If you can laugh at him you might be able to get through one of his videos. I haven't been able to watch one all the way through.

 

[TorMag]

That is him. And he made at least two videos with the overboard caution. That is not the one I watched years ago. If you can laugh at him you might be able to get through one of his videos. I haven't been able to watch one all the way through.

That is my video, not very nice of you....


Kidding.

 

[stratslinger]

I too had one unintentional lacto infection a few years back. Yes, it's unlikely to happen, but it CAN happen. Since then (well, actually, until my last batch or two) I've taken aims to mill my grain well away from where I brew/ferment/package my beer, and I've had no recurrences.

I did mill in my basement on my last couple of brew days, running an electric rig in that same basement. The first of those definitely did not wind up infected, but it's still too soon to say on the second (only been in the fermenter about a week now).

 

[mongoose33]

people get WAY too crazy with sanitizing everything. You will have no problem milling withing inches of your brew equipment. I brew, and do everything in a 10 foot by 8 foot brew room with no problems.

As far as all to "rules" they are way too anal. I keep all my stuff close together. I prep, brew, clean, and even smoke in my brew room. I clean my fermenter buckets with a scouring pad, and most of my buckets are over 2 years old. I wash my yeast with the star san i used to clean my kegs after transfer. I cool my wort outside on windy days with no lid. Pretty much every little anal thing people talk about, i ether ignore, or half ass. I have NEVER had an infected beer in 5 years of brewing. In my opinion, the only thing that i do is star san the fermenter before transfering, and the keg before transfering. I dont sprey out all the fittings on the kettle, or really anything. I make a quart of star san mix for most things. It makes a bottle last years.

You can be as hard core as you want, but it is really not that vital on such a small scale

I'm not disbelieving anything you said, but I want to get something out there.

I live in Wisconsin; I've wondered how much of the problems various brewers have are related to where they live. If it's warm and humid where someone lives, does that increase the odds of airborne nasties infiltrating their fermenting wort?

I don't tend to have difficulties, but I've only brewed here in the winter and spring. Now as summer begins, will I face new conditions that change the effectiveness of what I do? I don't know, but I do wonder how much of what we give as advice is place-bound.

I'm thinking that if I were brewing in Arizona, it'd be very dry and thus fewer airborne nasties--but I also know that a lot of times, what seems logical isn't correct.

At any rate, equivalent processes should produce equivalent outcomes PROVIDED that ambient conditions are either identical or if different, meaningless in their impact.

 

[Terek]

I'm not disbelieving anything you said, but I want to get something out there.

I live in Wisconsin; I've wondered how much of the problems various brewers have are related to where they live. If it's warm and humid where someone lives, does that increase the odds of airborne nasties infiltrating their fermenting wort?

I don't tend to have difficulties, but I've only brewed here in the winter and spring. Now as summer begins, will I face new conditions that change the effectiveness of what I do? I don't know, but I do wonder how much of what we give as advice is place-bound.

I'm thinking that if I were brewing in Arizona, it'd be very dry and thus fewer airborne nasties--but I also know that a lot of times, what seems logical isn't correct.

At any rate, equivalent processes should produce equivalent outcomes PROVIDED that ambient conditions are either identical or slight in their impact.

i get your point. Im not sure of where i live makes a differenve, but we have all kinds of weather, and i brew all year long. Our summers are hot (90-110) and very dry. Our spring and fall are moderate (50-75) and very wet. And our winters can, and are usually very cold (30-5) with lots of snow.

 

[Brewrifle]

I mill about 8-10 feet away from where I brew in the kitchen and never had a single infection brewing 2-3 batches a month. I use a monster mill right over a home depot bucket and don't see much dust being kicked up.

I keep the fermentation container + lid + airlock soaked in starsan until dumping the wort. Heck I don't even re-sanitize the spoon from the boil to the bucket after transferring (maybe I should start?).

The only infections that I get are intentional through the use of pedio, lacto, and brett strains.

 

[mongoose33]

i get your point. Im not sure of where i live makes a differenve, but we have all kinds of weather, and i brew all year long. Our summers are hot (90-110) and very dry. Our spring and fall are moderate (50-75) and very wet. And our winters can, and are usually very cold (30-5) with lots of snow.

That argues more for "it doesn't matter." I tend more toward believing this, but the scientist in me (I am one, actually) is trained to look for alternative explanations of what's happening. "Place-risk" in terms of infections seems a possible explanation, but that idea would be trumped (sorry ) by either empirical data, or a knowledgeable microbiologist. I don't have the former, and I'm not the latter.

I don't know enough about microbiology to understand whether this is a concern...or not. Are there indigenous varieties of wild yeast or other nasties that are common in, say, Florida, but not Idaho--or Wisconsin? Or vice versa? I don't know.

I crush in my basement, but brew in the garage. When I'm dumping the grist into my mash tun, there is dust--can't seem to avoid it. The only difference is the amount of the dust, as I don't have milling dust present in the garage, only "dumping in" dust. But it's the same stuff.

I'm not worried about it. I sanitize a lot, figuring that the worst that can happen from an anal focus on sanitizing is that...I do more than I probably need to do, but it doesn't cost anything.

************

There's probably another issue going on here--my son *is* a microbiologist (apple fell far away from the tree in this case), and he's pointed out to me that a single microorganism or small infection in a fermenting wort is unlikely to have any effect--it's just overwhelmed by the billions of cells of yeast, and that's that. It would not surprise me if you--we--are getting wild stuff in our fermenting wort on a regular basis, but it's not enough to matter.

 

[Paps]

That is my video, not very nice of you....


Kidding.

I think the guy in the videos "T.S.A." was a HBT member at one time but got banned for some reason.
Happened before i started reading these forums so i've no idea on details.
Somebody who's been on here longer might know.

 

[Paps]

Not sure if you mean bottle bombs or some kind of explosion from propane/mill friction ].

Barley dust is explosive/flammable supposedly so when something that can go BOOM is near an open flame such as a propane burner......
You get the idea.

 

[TorMag]

Barley dust is explosive/flammable supposedly so when something that can go BOOM is near an open flame such as a propane burner......
You get the idea.

Damn, I've been milling about 2 feet from my water heater.

 

[sandyeggoxj]

Check out silo explosions!! Pretty crazy. If you go to where breweries mill their grain you'll see explosion containment equipment. At least you should.

 

[brewbama]

I mill outside

 

[TorMag]

I mill outside

That is what I will be doing from now on. Simple with my corona mill mounted in a home depot bucket.

 

[MaryB]

Unless you are milling 1,000 pounds a grain dust explosion is not going to happen! Heck I heat with a corn stove in winter and I vacuum the corn into the house on a system that generates 4 inch static sparks if I forget to reconnect the ground after dumping the shop vac. It isn't enough dust in one place to be concentrated to explosion levels.