I'm starting to experiment with different yeasts / style combinations and have just started a American Pale Ale with a Farmhouse hybrid Saison-style Yeast. When I calculate the sugar, do I consider it a Saison or a Pale Ale? I'm going to do a similar thing with an IPA / Saison yeast combination so the same question applies there too. Is there a standard rule to this? ....G
Does style depend on the Yeast, hops or grain?
- Thread starter Gee Tee
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Sounds like you might in fact be making a Belgian IPA style. You can use as much or as little sugar as you like, in any style. It will jack up the ABV without adding flavor. Personally I don't use sugar very often, except in Belgians where high ABV is expected. If you want a Pale Ale version of such a thing, maybe skip the sugar, shooting for a somewhat lower OG & ABV.
Style guideline for Belgian IPA:
https://www.bjcp.org/style/2015/21/21B/specialty-ipa-belgian-ipa/
Or otherwise it might be a Belgian Pale Ale, there's also an assigned style for that:
https://www.bjcp.org/style/2015/24/24B/belgian-pale-ale/
(For those who care about styles. FYI -- the Belgians do NOT care about styles for the most part.)
Style guideline for Belgian IPA:
https://www.bjcp.org/style/2015/21/21B/specialty-ipa-belgian-ipa/
Or otherwise it might be a Belgian Pale Ale, there's also an assigned style for that:
https://www.bjcp.org/style/2015/24/24B/belgian-pale-ale/
(For those who care about styles. FYI -- the Belgians do NOT care about styles for the most part.)
mashpaddled
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What do you mean calculate the sugar. The gravity of the wort or priming sugar to bottle it?
Well I’ve been using a “priming sugar calculator” on the Northern Brewer website that calculates how much priming sugar to use for bottling. It breaks it down to different amounts for different styles. I’m not experienced enough to stray from it yet as I don’t want exploding bottles. Is there another easy way to calculate it?
This is interesting. I was thinking more in terms of the fact that I’ve been using a “priming sugar calculator” on the Northern Brewer website that calculates how much priming sugar to use for bottling. The calculator breaks it down to different amounts of sugar for different styles. I’m not experienced enough to stray from it yet as I don’t want exploding bottles. Is there another easy way to calculate it? I like some carbonation, but not too much, but I also don't want beer that is flat (I've accidentally done it and it was not very good)...
deadwolfbones
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The short answer is that you can carbonate your beer in any way you like, for whatever effect you like.
I personally wouldn't go above 3 vols or so in normal 12oz bottles. For anything higher I'd use thick Belgian bottles or flip-tops.
I personally wouldn't go above 3 vols or so in normal 12oz bottles. For anything higher I'd use thick Belgian bottles or flip-tops.
OH........... now I get it...... priming sugar. Yeah, I can tell you what to use for priming sugar:
2 tablespoons per gallon, or 5/8 cup per 5 gallons, or 4.1 ounces per 5 gallons
I rarely stray from these amounts. They are enough carbonation without turning into gushers. If you want gushers guaranteed, then tell the calculator you've got a Belgian ale.
In other words, I think I'd consider this a Pale Ale. Guess I should double-check by actually looking at your link..... yes, I was right... their calculator is not great. Follow my guidance instead. I've been bottling more than 160 batches and thousands of bottles since 1999. I trust my experience better than any calculator. The calculator is broken anyway. If you change the style, it doesn't recalculate unless you refresh the whole page. At least, on Google Chrome.
...But really, I mean, wow. What an old page that is. They don't even have half of the BJCP styles on there. It's like the old 1997 version of the BJCP style guidelines, not updated in 25 years.
Re: Northern Brewer's carbonation/priming guide:
That's why many homebrewers prefer to use Brewer's Friend's plethora of calculators:
https://www.brewersfriend.com/stats/
That's why many homebrewers prefer to use Brewer's Friend's plethora of calculators:
https://www.brewersfriend.com/stats/
Thank you Dave, I see your point and like your rule of thumb much better. Most of the suggestions in the calculator are around 4.2 - 4.5 oz bottling at 70 degrees or 80 degrees (the temp of my apartment in the summer). 6.7 - 6.8 for saisons. Is the amount of fizz per ounce of sugar is the same regardless of the style of beer? Doesn’t it react differently depending on the gravity? I’ll probably split the difference with this hybrid APA with saison yeast and put around 5.5 oz of corn sugar and see what happens. Does this make sense?
This is corn sugar, right? I use cane sugar, so it's less.
My tips would be:
- Measure your priming sugar by weight (grams is easier) and do not measure it by volume (cups, tablespoons). You will get much more consistent results by weight.
- Pick a calculator and adjust the amount of priming sugar for your desired carbonation level. You don't need a page with all 99 styles. Target 2.2 for lower carb, target 2.6 for a standard American level of carbonation, and target 3.0 for stuff like Belgians (or pick another value you like). Adjust based on preferences and experience. If going above 3.0, use bottles that are known to handle high carbonation.
Cane sugar. With corn sugar you might need slightly more. But there is no good reason not to use cane sugar.
I wouldn’t use that much assuming 5 gallons. Kaboom. Bombs.
VikeMan
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Assuming residual CO2 at about 68F, 5.5 oz of corn sugar in 5 gallons would land you somewhere between 2.7 and 2.8 volumes of CO2, which is a bit lively for most styles.
jerrylotto
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One thing I didn't see mentioned is that if you use an STA1 modified yeast (not uncommon for Belgian yeast strains), it's going to chew on dextrin's for a while and you may want to cut back on your priming sugar a little bit.
I used 6.2 ounces in the saison I made last year and it was just right. Maybe an "ale wort" with the extra gravity might have extra sugars in it?
I'm using a Lellemand hybrid saison style yeast. I used 6.2 ounces in the saison I made last year with a standard saison yeast and it was just right. Maybe an "ale wort" with the extra gravity might have extra sugars in it and make more fizz?
I use WLP565 often and I do find that my bottle conditioned beers get a little extra carbonation after a few months in the bottle. I target them a 3 volumes and try to use sturdy bottles. I did a split batch with WLP565 and Lallemand Farmhouse. With the same amount of priming sugar, the Farmhouse bottles were less carbonated than the WLP565.
Lallemand Farmhouse is not a crazy high attenuator like other saison strains. You should be alright if you prime a little high. But 6.2 oz seems very high indeed, for 5 gallons. Or are you making more, like 5.5 to 6 gallons?
VikeMan
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Fully fermented beer (i.e. not rushed to packaging before it's done) doesn't have any simple sugars left to make any extra CO2. It doesn't matter what the original wort was.
ETA: 6.2 ounces corn sugar in 5 gallons of beer that stabilized at 68F will get you just a hair shy of 3 volumes of CO2. That's not particularly high for a Saison, but is high for most styles. That said, it's the same amount of CO2, regardless of the style.
Kickass
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I’m sure @Gee Tee, and others, understand what’s going on from all the good comments but to add some additional clarity:
Style does not affect actual carbonation of packaged beer. Priming sugar does. Brewers will/can add more or less sugar to reach a desired carbonation state based on what’s generally accepted as common for that beer style.
Hopefully this adds value to the conversation.
Style does not affect actual carbonation of packaged beer. Priming sugar does. Brewers will/can add more or less sugar to reach a desired carbonation state based on what’s generally accepted as common for that beer style.
Hopefully this adds value to the conversation.
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I’m a heretic and prime each bottle directly with 1/2 tsp sugar, skip the bottling bucket, and bottle straight from the fermenter.
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