Does no one mash wort for starters? advice please

[brewjedi]

So I ordered some WLP001 from more beer. Had it shipped in ice packs. It took two days to get here so I know that it was at god knows what temp for 24 hours. when I received it I immediately placed it in the underground cellar where I ferment. Then I mashed and boiled a perfect 1.040 wort from 2-row pale. Cooled and let that sit next to the slants for a few hours then aerated and pitched. No stir plate. shook it up every 8 hours. Was late on my mash and didn't get the starter pitched till 48 hours . Other than the late pitch, I think I did ok. I do not have any DME and from what I researched the yeast should build better enzymes suited to digesting my wort if I use a similar starter. I would love some advice on this from someone who has done it. Haven't heard from anyone who has. I can't seem to find much info on this.... This is my first starter and my first all grain. I'm at 6 hours past pitch and it seems to be going OK so far but I have 3 more batches to do and I would like some input before proceeding. Thanks!!

 

[bknifefight]

So you are asking whether or not a starter of "similar" wort will be better for the yeast?

I kinda doubt it. Anyways, it seems like you just mashed 2 row. That is basically the same thing as using a light DME for a starter as far as the grain.

I also doubt that many people mash to create starter wort. 1 lb of DME will yield 1 gallon of 1.040 wort which is almost 4 liters.

 

[brans041]

I've mashed for a starter when I do not have DME, it wasn't bad, just BIAB style with a 15 min boil afterwards.

 

[brewjedi]

OK, I may have screwed up there. I did a 50 minute boil assuming I needed to boil off DMS. I was planing on pitching the whole starter, not flocculating, decanting, and making another damn starter. So did I boil off nutrients or something?

 

[tre9er]

OK, I may have screwed up there. I did a 50 minute boil assuming I needed to boil off DMS. I was planing on pitching the whole starter, not flocculating, decanting, and making another damn starter. So did I boil off nutrients or something?

You're fine. The yeast need sugar to get started. You gave them that. There will be some proteins and such in there, too.

 

[inhousebrew]

It just seems like so much more work to mash starters...

That said, I was thinking about doing it once so I could get maybe ten liters or something and then can the starter wort. I've heard of people doing that before so that you can just crack on open from the cupboard and toss it in with your yeast. But for an individual starter, way to much work unless you have no choice.

 

[makomachine]

I recently made 6 gallons of starter from 2-row and canned in my pressure canner. A lot cheaper than DME and a time saver for me in the long run.

 

[brewjedi]

OH... I forgot to mention I was mashing enough wort to make starter for 20 gallons of 1.070 I'm hoping to do this once a week so I might as well start stepping this stuff up now that I know its not dead. It just doesn't seem like I got a ton of slurry but the ferment is at 7.5 hours and it's rolling around and bubbling pretty good now. Thanks for letting know I'm not crazy. Seriously, What bout DMS in the starter wort? Should I go 30 min....

 

[brewjedi]

Oh and thanks for actually reading my post before responding. The guys at BN forum don't seem to be able to understand anything they haven't heard the podcast or read what's being written JK BN guys....

 

[inhousebrew]

OH... I forgot to mention I was mashing enough wort to make starter for 20 gallons of 1.070 I'm hoping to do this once a week so I might as well start stepping this stuff up now that I know its not dead. It just doesn't seem like I got a ton of slurry but the ferment is at 7.5 hours and it's rolling around and bubbling pretty good now. Thanks for letting know I'm not crazy. Seriously, What bout DMS in the starter wort? Should I go 30 min....

I know DMS is an undesirable product in the finished beer but it wouldn't really affect the yeast would it??? Isn't it also more of a problem with Pilsner Malt rather than your basic 2-row? My thinking is that it's not a big deal and the 15 minute boil would be just to kill off any potential containment.

 

[tre9er]

I know DMS is an undesirable product in the finished beer but it wouldn't really affect the yeast would it??? Isn't it also more of a problem with Pilsner Malt rather than your basic 2-row? My thinking is that it's not a big deal and the 15 minute boil would be just to kill off any potential containment.

Yep, mostly just with Pilsner

 

[bleme]

I usually make a 5 gallon starter, decant, and use that yeast for my next 5 gallon starter. The benefit of this method is that the decanted solution is very tasty and vaguely reminiscent of beer!

 

[tre9er]

I usually make a 5 gallon starter, decant, and use that yeast for my next 5 gallon starter. The benefit of this method is that the decanted solution is very tasty and vaguely reminiscent of beer!

I'll admit it took me a minute...but I see what you did there...

 

[makomachine]

I just crash cool and decant the starter - no worries about DMS at that point. I didn't even boil my wort before canning - its boiled plenty in the canning process and DMS will be there in all likelihood. If you are decanting, no big deal.

 

[DrHop]

That seems like a lot of.work. I have always wondered if your could just use table sugar + yeast nutrient in a starter. This would be cheap and easy since I always have these on hand. If I crash and decant the liquid from the starter before using it would there be any problems with this?

 

[makomachine]

That seems like a lot of.work. I have always wondered if your could just use table sugar + yeast nutrient in a starter. This would be cheap and easy since I always have these on hand. If I crash and decant the liquid from the starter before using it would there be any problems with this?

You are training yeast to eat sucrose and not maltose - not a good idea. It takes some work and isn't for everyone - I'd recommend the DME route for those not brewing often.

 

[Yooper]

One thing that I've done when I'm out of DME (and I normally use DME for starters) is take my last runnings out of the MLT and boil it for starters. It doesn't have to boil an hour, just 15 minutes or so to kill any microbes. Instead of canning, I just stick it in a pitcher (with a seal) in the freezer and then thaw and briefly boil before using it in my starter.

Generally, for starters you want to target an OG of 1.035-1.040. It doesn't really matter if it's from two-row, pilsner malt, DME, etc. Just as long as it's fermentable wort at a lower gravity, it will be great as a starter.

 

[DrHop]

You are training yeast to eat sucrose and not maltose - not a good idea. It takes some work and isn't for everyone - I'd recommend the DME route for those not brewing often.

Yeah I have always used DME. DME is just one of those things I run out of and forget to replace.

 

[E-Mursed]

I recently made 6 gallons of starter from 2-row and canned in my pressure canner. A lot cheaper than DME and a time saver for me in the long run.

Do the same....I do a special mash just to make starter wort.

Pop open two quarts...pitch yeast...drop the stir bar and away we go.

 

[TarheelBrew13]

I mash all my starter wort. DME is too expensive for my broke college !%%. Is it a little more labor intensive? Sure, but not that much. I make a large batch of 1.040 wort, boil for 15 mins to sanitize and store in airtight containers for later use. My yeast have personally thanked me for all my efforts on more than one occasion. In fact, I think they're planning a party in my honor tonight in which they will get me a little tipsy and boost my confidence to talk to women way out of my league.

 

[makomachine]

One thing that I've done when I'm out of DME (and I normally use DME for starters) is take my last runnings out of the MLT and boil it for starters. It doesn't have to boil an hour, just 15 minutes or so to kill any microbes. Instead of canning, I just stick it in a pitcher (with a seal) in the freezer and then thaw and briefly boil before using it in my starter.

Generally, for starters you want to target an OG of 1.035-1.040. It doesn't really matter if it's from two-row, pilsner malt, DME, etc. Just as long as it's fermentable wort at a lower gravity, it will be great as a starter.

That's something that I'm planning on taking more advantage of too. I've always got a quart or two at the bottom of the kettle that previously had gone to waste. Didn't think of the freezing and then boiling later which is probably another method of avoiding botulism toxin. Not sure on when it's active, but highly doubtful when it's frozen solid.

 

[Yooper]

That's something that I'm planning on taking more advantage of too. I've always got a quart or two at the bottom of the kettle that previously had gone to waste. Didn't think of the freezing and then boiling later which is probably another method of avoiding botulism toxin. Not sure on when it's active, but highly doubtful when it's frozen solid.

I think you'd still want to boil it before freezing to kill any lactobacillus and stuff, and then freeze it. Plus, if the runnings are 1.025, you'll want to reduce them a bit anyway to get to 1.035 or so.

I can do that on my kitchen stove, though, after brewday is over so it's not any trouble.

 

[Stauffbier]

One thing that I've done when I'm out of DME (and I normally use DME for starters) is take my last runnings out of the MLT and boil it for starters. It doesn't have to boil an hour, just 15 minutes or so to kill any microbes. Instead of canning, I just stick it in a pitcher (with a seal) in the freezer and then thaw and briefly boil before using it in my starter.
.

This is what I always do. I save a gallon or so of wort from every batch I brew and freeze it for starters.

 

[ReverseApacheMaster]

I usually try to run off an extra half to full gallon of runnings after I reach my boil volume and while the main boil is going I boil the crap out of those extra runnings. I try to get them down to 1.080 then freeze in a tupperware container. I boil it down that much so it takes up half as much freezer space. When I need to make a starter I pull out a container, microwave it a little to thaw some of the liquid, pour off the liquid, add an equal amount of water and boil for ten minutes. That's my starter. Tupperware goes back in the freezer. Often when I want to freeze more starter wort I top up the existing containers. Doesn't matter if the starter is part stout, part tripel, part hefe as long as you are decanting, but I usually only keep runnings from light-colored beers so I don't have to worry about any color contamination on lighter beers.

 

[opteek]

I'm going to start doing this. And also subscribed to your blog

 

[bratrules]

I usually try to run off an extra half to full gallon of runnings after I reach my boil volume and while the main boil is going I boil the crap out of those extra runnings. I try to get them down to 1.080 then freeze in a tupperware container. I boil it down that much so it takes up half as much freezer space. When I need to make a starter I pull out a container, microwave it a little to thaw some of the liquid, pour off the liquid, add an equal amount of water and boil for ten minutes. That's my starter. Tupperware goes back in the freezer. Often when I want to freeze more starter wort I top up the existing containers. Doesn't matter if the starter is part stout, part tripel, part hefe as long as you are decanting, but I usually only keep runnings from light-colored beers so I don't have to worry about any color contamination on lighter beers.

I do the same thing I just put the wort in empty sports drink bottles. Then reduce with the same amout of water. This saves me a lot of money. Although I do keep some dme on hand just to make small starters for my frozen yeast.