Does Jolly Pumpkin use a bottling yeast?

[RITiger41]

I recently pitched the dregs from a bottle of JP’s La Roja onto a mixed-fermented golden ale. Upon pitching the dregs within a few days time the beer has already showed signs of fermentation.

A friend of mine with more experience brewing sour ales stated, sometime in 2012 JP began filtering and using a bottling strain due to carbonation issues. My dregs were from a bottle dated 8/2013.

I searched HBT and several other forums, but could not find any information regarding JP use a bottling strain. JP’s website claims La Roja is unfiltered and unpasteurized.

Can anyone debunk this rumor? What are your experiences with JP's dregs with a bottling date after 2012? Thanks.

 

[metic]

JP dregs are great for souring beer. Per Michael Tonsmeire's new book, "All of Jolly Pumpkin's beers are unfiltered, unpasteurized, and conditioned in the keg or bottle" (p.97) They do reyeast at bottling, and I remember an old thread here speculating that they used a dried yeast at this point, different from their primary strain. But even if that was true, it wouldn't affect the viability of the dregs.

Perhaps your friend was thinking of New Belgium?

 

[mbbransc]

I was looking for it earlier this week but can't find it. I seem to recall Ron Jefferies of JP on a podcast saying recently that they used a wine yeast to carb.

 

[Hello]

Someone once linked this site and it's super useful:
http://www.themadfermentationist.com/p/dreg-list.html

 

[mbbransc]

Now that I think about it a bit more, it might have been Prairie that used wine yeast to bottle carb.

 

[RITiger41]

Hello, thanks for the link. It appears the MF has significantly updated the brett/bugs list, since that last time I viewed it. I printed off a version of that list as quick reference about a year ago, but haven't checked back for updates.

Even if they JP uses a dry/wine yeast for bottling. I feel the beer should be fine. I mashed hot and used about 20% of unmalted wheat, so there is food for the bugs.

 

[TNGabe]

If you're pitching dregs into secondary, a bottling strain isn't a concern because there shouldn't be much of anything left for it to ferment. JP dregs have a well deserved reputation for being very effective, probably because the beers are generally bottled young and the culture remains active in the bottle, which is why there is often not much lag time and a visibly active fermentation.

If you are growing up dregs, I think the bottling strain is a concern as it may potentially grow much faster than the brett and/or bacteria you want to grow up.

And yes, Jp does use a bottling strain other than house yeast. It's in an interview with Ron Jeffries, but I can't remember which one.

 

[sweetcell]

If you are growing up dregs, I think the bottling strain is a concern as it may potentially grow much faster than the brett and/or bacteria you want to grow up.

one potential way around this is to use a sugar that isn't fermentable by sacch, such as maltodextrin. the bottling strain (sacch) will still be present, but will continue to slowly decline as it starves while the bugs reproduce as they munch on the MD. pitching that starter into a new batch of beer will re-awaken the sacch, but there won't be much of it.

 

[TNGabe]

one potential way around this is to use a sugar that isn't fermentable by sacch, such as maltodextrin. the bottling strain (sacch) will still be present, but will continue to slowly decline as it starves while the bugs reproduce as they munch on the MD. pitching that starter into a new batch of beer will re-awaken the sacch, but there won't be much of it.

I've seen you post this before, but remain doubtful of it's efficacy.

 

[sweetcell]

I've seen you post this before, but remain doubtful of it's efficacy.

fair enough. what are your concerns? that the MD won't be a good medium for the LAB? that the brett and its alcohol production will inhibit the bugs?

i have successfully grown brett dregs in MD-only starters. i don't see why it wouldn't work for bugs, given enough time (pedio would take a while to grow, tho). i even got some lacto from Crooked Stave dregs that also took off in a MD-only starter. if i were making a MD starter for the purpose of growing bugs, i wouldn't use a stir plate.

but i wouldn't bother with making starters for bugs. just pitch directly into the beer and give it time. and use more dregs if it's not happening fast enough.

 

[TNGabe]

fair enough. what are your concerns? that the MD won't be a good medium for the LAB? that the brett and its alcohol production will inhibit the bugs?

i have successfully grown brett dregs in MD-only starters. i don't see why it wouldn't work for bugs, given enough time (pedio would take a while to grow, tho). i even got some lacto from Crooked Stave dregs that also took off in a MD-only starter. if i were making a MD starter for the purpose of growing bugs, i wouldn't use a stir plate.

but i wouldn't bother with making starters for bugs. just pitch directly into the beer and give it time. and use more dregs if it's not happening fast enough.

To me, it's the other side of the 'why can't I use simple sugar for a starter?' I don't want the culture to become acclimated to fermenting maltodextrose and am uncertain how MD compares to wort for other nutritional requirements beyond the sugar.

Re bugs and stirplates, apparanently not a big deal according to American Sours. I'd always assumed it was.

 

[sweetcell]

To me, it's the other side of the 'why can't I use simple sugar for a starter?'

the only reason that i see to use MD instead of wort or simple sugars is to prevent sacch from gobbling everything up before the brett and bugs get going.

I don't want the culture to become acclimated to fermenting maltodextrose and am uncertain how MD compares to wort for other nutritional requirements beyond the sugar.

i was under the impression that brett and bugs are less finicky than sacch, that they can switch food sources without much trouble.

thanks for the info on bugs & stir plates. i've stalled in my reading of American Sours... damn kids.