Does clearer beer have an impact on taste?

[Immocles]

I keep things simple with a single infusion. Perhaps someday I'll branch out.

 

[corkybstewart]

If you can't cold crash in a CO2-only manner, don't cold crash. Simple as that. The visual benefit doesn't outweigh the damage it does. Not necessarily contamination (though possible), but definite oxidation.

That's why I've only cold crashed in kegs. Especially after I quit racking into a 5 gallon carboy for secondary conditioning. Rack once, put it in the conditioning fridge and leave it alone.

 

[Qhrumphf]

That's why I've only cold crashed in kegs. Especially after I quit racking into a 5 gallon carboy for secondary conditioning. Rack once, put it in the conditioning fridge and leave it alone.

Without having a unitank, that is easily the best way of doing it. Just accept you'll have to dump a few pints. You were gonna lose it anyway.

 

[sbaldus8539]

Make sure to run your mash through a 122F to 129F protein rest for 20-30 mins. This helps a lot with clarity.

Does this apply to all recipes? So, 125 @ 20-30 minutes then regular mash temperature for 60 or so?

 

[VikeMan]

Does this apply to all recipes? So, 125 @ 20-30 minutes then regular mash temperature for 60 or so?

Most beers brewed with modern malts do not need a protein rest, because enzymatic breakdown of proteins happens during the malting process. But if you have issues with chill haze with particular malts, a protein rest is a way to address it.

 

[sbaldus8539]

Most beers brewed with modern malts do not need a protein rest, because enzymatic breakdown of proteins happens during the malting process. But if you have issues with chill haze with particular malts, a protein rest is a way to address it.

Thanks ...

 

[Beermeister32]

Does this apply to all recipes? So, 125 @ 20-30 minutes then regular mash temperature for 60 or so?

Yes

 

[Qhrumphf]

I mean if clarity at the expense of body and head is the goal, then sure. As said above, with most modern malts a protein rest is unnecessary. With some lower-modified malts, or very high protein adjuncts, then yeah. But definitely not all mashes.

 

[amber-ale]

We drink out of frosted glasses, so don't care if it is clear or not. most of the time it clears by itself as it conditions/ages.
try not to over-complicate things

 

[mattdee1]

If you can't cold crash in a CO2-only manner, don't cold crash. Simple as that. The visual benefit doesn't outweigh the damage it does. Not necessarily contamination (though possible), but definite oxidation.

With all of the info out there on homebrew forums, etc. regarding the damage done by oxygen post-fermentation, I'm pretty surprised that cold crashing in the fermentor without regard for oxygen intrusion continues to be such a common practice, especially if clarity is the main goal, because it can just be done in the keg/bottle.

If the main goal of the cold crashing step is to prevent the transfer of dry-hop matter into the keg (which can cause clogs and other headaches) then that makes much more sense, but there may by some creative ways of getting around the problem without cold crashing.

I still use plastic buckets, and simply insert a hop filter into the bucket before filling it. It is held upright by a simple loop of tubing (see photo.) For dry-hopping, a hole in the bucket lid with a rubber stopper is quickly opened to drop in the dry-hops while CO2 is gently fed into the airlock. The lid hole is positioned such that it is directly over the center of the upright filter assembly. The dry hops fall into the cylinder, then during transfer to a liquid-purged keg, the racking cane is placed outside of the mesh filter. The hop matter gets trapped in the filter and only beer comes through the cane. I'm very happy with this setup. The photo shows a recent batch that had 4 oz of dry hops in the 5gal bucket. The simple gravity transfer went perfectly, leaving no more than about half a pint of beer in the bucket with no slow-downs, bubbles, or visible solids flowing into the keg. The bucket lid was never opened, and no cold crashing was required. Those dry hops remained fresh-tasting for the several weeks the keg was on tap - something I was never able to achieve before moving to this method, despite lots of trying.

 

[Qhrumphf]

With all of the info out there on homebrew forums, etc. regarding the damage done by oxygen post-fermentation,

There is a pervasive tendency amongst homebrewers to assume if it's not a textbook worst case scenario flaw as quickly elaborated in the flaw index of How To Brew then it isn't present. "My beer doesn't taste like straight cardboard therefore it is not oxidized". This is rampant with both oxidation and autolysis characters.

 

[mattdee1]

There is a pervasive tendency amongst homebrewers to assume if it's not a textbook worst case scenario flaw as quickly elaborated in the flaw index of How To Brew then it isn't present. "My beer doesn't taste like straight cardboard therefore it is not oxidized". This is rampant with both oxidation and autolysis characters.

Agreed, and I was definitely one of those homebrewers. I can honestly say I've never tasted wet cardboard or strong sherry-like flavors in any of my beers. But at the same time I eventually had to admit to myself that my hoppy beers were garbage compared to any half-decent commercial example and no combination or quantity of hops was making them any better, so it was obvious there was something wrong with my process. I decided it was time to listen to the droves of homebrewers talking about oxygen and see if that might be the missing link (spoiler, it was).

I also think that some homebrewers convince themselves that oxygen exposure is just one of those "theoretical" things you don't really need to worry about, because they don't want to leave the comfort zone and change a familiar process that they can do blind-folded. It definitely does take some thought and planning to get it going, but once you do, it becomes almost second nature just like everything else.

 

[Knightshade]

so I removed the S airlocks, gave a spray of StarSan and capped them w/the LBMBs plastic caps. Easy Peasy.

I'm cold crashing so racking isn't all for the yuck.

FWIW, I racked this last night and it was still for the yuck. I had plenty of crap drop to the bottom from cold crashing, which was great. However, I had so much Krausen crud up top, that when moving the fermenters over to the sink area where I typically set up my stuff to rack (maybe 12 feet away?), it was impossible to not have some collision of beer and said crud.

That and hearing the clunk, clunk, slurp, slurp despite my best efforts to not have it do that when I stopped racking from first fermenter and moved to second...yeesh. Cringe worthy.

This will easily turn into a rant about lack of preparation on my part w/equipment and needing to do better. Alas..if I'm not failing, I'm not learning. Onwards!!!

 

[Qhrumphf]

Yep.

Agreed, and I was definitely one of those homebrewers. I can honestly say I've never tasted wet cardboard or strong sherry-like flavors in any of my beers. But at the same time I eventually had to admit to myself that my hoppy beers were garbage compared to any half-decent commercial example and no combination or quantity of hops was making them any better, so it was obvious there was something wrong with my process. I decided it was time to listen to the droves of homebrewers talking about oxygen and see if that might be the missing link (spoiler, it was).

I also think that some homebrewers convince themselves that oxygen exposure is just one of those "theoretical" things you don't really need to worry about, because they don't want to leave the comfort zone and change a familiar process that they can do blind-folded. It definitely does take some thought and planning to get it going, but once you do, it becomes almost second nature just like everything else.

I have seen, verbatim, by long time posters on this forum: "it is very difficult to oxidize your beer".

When we know that the opposite is true. Because the vast majority of homebrew- I dare say apart from a very small niche of seriously studied brewers (ie those who started LODO on the homebrew scale), prior to the NEIPA craze it was ALL homebrew- is oxidized already.

However, if it's not the worst case scenario of chewing on paper or sherry, people assumed it was normal and thus it took either a long time or a lot of abuse to reach the worst case they assume as "oxidized".

Basically if your beer is already oxidized, without major abuse it's hard to notice that you're oxidizing it more. To understand what oxidation does you need to know what it's like unoxidized.

When you have to open the lid to take a sample, it's basically impossible to avoid. But bad habits like cold crashing with an airlock at atmospheric pressure don't help.

 

[Nubiwan]

Yep.


I have seen, verbatim, by long time posters on this forum: "it is very difficult to oxidize your beer".

When we know that the opposite is true. Because the vast majority of homebrew- I dare say apart from a very small niche of seriously studied brewers (ie those who started LODO on the homebrew scale), prior to the NEIPA craze it was ALL homebrew- is oxidized already.

However, if it's not the worst case scenario of chewing on paper or sherry, people assumed it was normal and thus it took either a long time or a lot of abuse to reach the worst case they assume as "oxidized".

Basically if your beer is already oxidized, without major abuse it's hard to notice that you're oxidizing it more. To understand what oxidation does you need to know what it's like unoxidized.

When you have to open the lid to take a sample, it's basically impossible to avoid. But bad habits like cold crashing with an airlock at atmospheric pressure don't help.

Liked yours and other previous posts, by the way. Just offering a different perspective on limited home brewing process and experience.

I try my best to reduce oxygen intake in my biab / plastic pail (pale?) / bottle process. Its simply impossible without appropriate equipment. Simply lifting the pale - at bottling time - causes some pressure difference. Its enough to either blow through or draw air in through an S-lock. So i usually remove the air lock before moving fermentor, so air jjust gets in then.

I have two fermentors active right now. One is done. Im thinking on collecting co2 from the active one and ballooning the finished fermentor. So i could cold crash. Was also hoping to use gelatin to clear out beer. This means letting it cool down, opening the airlock balloon space to administer gelatin solution. You cant win.

Is clear beer worth it? Will i really taste the difference that bit of o2 ingress would make? How am i to know without investment in a closed system? Brulosophy? Lol

Hundreds of millions of people drink miller, bud and coors every single day. The argument that whatever beer homebrewers make, with 02 ingress, is inferior, simply doesnt hold true. While i am unable to do anything near LODO fermenting, many of my beers are far better than those already mentioned, and indeed, i find many bar proprietors, and also craft breweries, pay little heed to the condition of their pipes and delivery systems, and its entirely possible to have the same draft beer taste different from one place to the next, never mind my own beer tastes completely fresher than anything i buy in a bar.

Similarly, just because a brewery has invested tens of thousands and more in brewing equipment, and maintains stricter lodo process, doesnt guarantee good tasting ale. A local craft brewery close to me makes about 40 different beers. Among the standard fayre, they have also introduced a bunch of (what to me) sound more like beer cocktails, than actual beer, because they add fruits, and other spices, as if to be "cutting edge".

Having drank beer for over 40 years now, i cant help feeling the current trend towards "flavoured beer" to be the purview of those who simply dont really like ...... well, the taste of beer.

So, to hear anyone talk about how beer tastes, in todays world, whether BMC, LODO, craft brewed or home brewed, is all rather eye brow raising to me. My opinion is that there are a lot of ****** beers being sold, made with state of the art gear and process. With my limited home brewing hobby, i can make a pretty good version of the styles i like, and it tastes much better than most commercially available beers. Not always, but quite often. Even with my very limited home brewing procees.

As with beauty, taste is in the eye (mouth) of the beholder. I submit my beer might be better with better procss and controls, but my litmus test are those multitudes of beers in store coolers ad, at present, i am happier with my own beer, as our many of my drinking pals