Does clearer beer have an impact on taste?

[Knightshade]

I think I've brewed a total of..maybe 10 batches of beer? Most of them have been small batches too, but that is just more to give you an idea that I'm fairly new to this hobby. Living in SoCal, there is NO shortage of great beer to be had, but outside of the "hazy" craze, there is or seems to be a very high focus on the clarity/brightness/transparency (pick an adjective) of a beer.

So my question is...is it worth the extra effort to attempt to create a beer with a high level of..ability to read a book through my pint glass? I've personally put this off as a secondary thing to accomplish. Meaning..figure out where I'm messing up as to why the beer isn't a taste "great" beer first (mashing/hop schedule/ferment etc.).....then I'll worry about the way it looks. I mean..it isn't like I'm entering any of my beautiful disasters into a competition anytime soon. But...if my disinterest into producing clarity impacts the flavor.....??

 

[OleBrewing]

I think it is dependant on yeast strain. Floating yeast does affect mouth feel and flavor. Depending on the yeast you use will determine that.

 

[OleBrewing]

There are many ways to refine a beer. Small bottled batches let sit in fridge for a while. Some cold crash. Some secondary (which I find useless unless doing a big barley wine) many of my beers go from fermenter to kegs in2 weeks. But I use yeast that drops fast.

 

[Knightshade]

I just mean I haven't....up to this point anyways. Taken time to whirlpool, added Irish moss / whirlfloc, hooked up beer filters through transfer lines, etc.

I do cold crash for 48 hours and with my most recent batch made it a point to CC in my temp controlled fridge vs. kitchen fridge, but that is it. The beers/ciders appear a bit hazy and I just shrug it off and tell myself that I'm not going to worry about it right now.

 

[Jim R]

It doesn't take much time to toss in a cheap Whirlfloc tablet at the end of the boil. I also whirlpool a little and try to keep as much trub as possible out of the fermenter. Otherwise I don't do anything different than you seem to be doing. I really couldn't care less if my beer is crystal clear.

 

[Qhrumphf]

I think it depends on what the source of your haze is. Chill haze from larger proteins is unlikely to impact anything but appearance. If you've got a bunch of unconverted starch, well that could be another story. Yeast in suspension can have a slight impact. Polyphenol hazes (say, oversparging) could coincide with some flavor impact as well.

 

[corkybstewart]

Yeast in suspension can have a slight impact. Polyphenol hazes (say, oversparging) could coincide with some flavor impact as well.

I brewed a English style pale ale years ago-a 10 gallon batch. Halfway through the first keg I just couldn't drink another drop and I turned it into malt vinegar. A year later I found the 2nd keg in the kegerator and it was delicious, it was suspended WLP 007 yeast that tasted so bad. Even after a month in the kegerator that yeast didn't drop out. So yeast in suspension can have a serious effect on flavor.

 

[Knightshade]

Hmm..thanks for the info everyone. I actually did add a whirl floc in my last batch..and..I kinda forgot to whirlpool. I was so focused on getting the wort down to temp and moving the IC around, etc., that when it finally got to temp, I was really impatient about getting it to FC. It was fairly aggressive during the first couple of days of ferment and all this...gunk was moving around...it was quite gross. It has since settled down, currently on day 9. This is what it looked like about 30 seconds after pitching the yeast, US05.

This batch will most certainly be getting a 48h cold crash in the lower 30s.

 

[mattdee1]

I treat clarity this way: I follow what I believe to be a sound process with due focus on what experience has shown me to be the major factors (namely: recipe design, mash temperature, water profile, yeast handling, fermentation temperature, cold-side oxygen avoidance). If the beer ends up clear, great. If it ends up hazy, that's cool too. There are various factors that will determine the level of clarity, but I'm not one to try to bend a beer to be clear when it doesn't want to be, and vice versa.

I know cold-crashing is popular, but if the only point of doing it is "beer clarity" then it's not a very good choice, IMO. The same process of letting the beer sit at a low temperature so it drops clear can happen in the keg or bottle. Doing it in the fermenter, you're probably sucking in harmful oxygen, unless you implement some measure to protect against that.

I realize there are other reasons to cold crash, though. For example, a heavily dry-hopped beer that has lots of crap floating around in it might clog up your racking cane during transfer if you don't crash out all the floaties. But if final clarity is your only goal, then I'd say just do the cold crash after packaging. Same ultimate result, less risk of oxygen intrusion.

 

[Velnerj]

We often taste with our eyes and a lot of homebrewers pride themselves on clear beer as it's not such an easy feat.

Personally I've found that varlaufing (until wort is clear) and cold crashing are the biggest factors for me for clear beer. But it all can be erased by a bad pour from the bottle or jostling a bottle before opening.

I've just started kegging and now I've got the clearest beer I've ever had, so I suppose that's a big equalizer when it comes to beer clarity.

 

[Knightshade]

I'm cold crashing so racking isn't all for the yuck.

 

[OleBrewing]

I brewed a English style pale ale years ago-a 10 gallon batch. Halfway through the first keg I just couldn't drink another drop and I turned it into malt vinegar. A year later I found the 2nd keg in the kegerator and it was delicious, it was suspended WLP 007 yeast that tasted so bad. Even after a month in the kegerator that yeast didn't drop out. So yeast in suspension can have a serious effect on flavor.

Surprised the 007 stayed suspended every time ive used it drops like a rocj

 

[cmac62]

I usually don't cold crash, I ferment at whatever temp my spare bathroom is at until it is done, trnfr to the keg and put that in the fridge at serving temps and it generally will pour clear in a week or two. Ive even had hazies and heffs clear before the keg kicks.

 

[Genuine]

Call it strange....However I think my own perception of a beer has to do with the way it looks. Last year, I did back to back batches of NEIPA. I had one batch that eventually cleared(ish). When clear, it still had that great low bitterness, very juicy flavor and aroma...however I felt like it tasted better when it was hazy. When I tasted it with eyes closed, everything seemed similiar.

So, With that being said I don't mind pouring a pint of strikingly bright lager or WCIPA/ PA or anything of the sort. I don't have a fermentation fridge so I have to "lager" in keg when I'm making lagers. I've had lots of pale ale's fermented with US-05 that drop bright after a few weeks in the keg and they look beautiful.

 

[corkybstewart]

Surprised the 007 stayed suspended every time ive used it drops like a rocj

That's what I had read about it and why I didn' think the off taste was the suspended yeast. That w the one and only time I ever used it.

 

[Beermeister32]

Make sure to run your mash through a 122F to 129F protein rest for 20-30 mins. This helps a lot with clarity.

 

[rjhoff]

I know cold-crashing is popular, but if the only point of doing it is "beer clarity" then it's not a very good choice, IMO. The same process of letting the beer sit at a low temperature so it drops clear can happen in the keg or bottle. Doing it in the fermenter, you're probably sucking in harmful oxygen, unless you implement some measure to protect against that.

I realize there are other reasons to cold crash, though. For example, a heavily dry-hopped beer that has lots of crap floating around in it might clog up your racking cane during transfer if you don't crash out all the floaties. But if final clarity is your only goal, then I'd say just do the cold crash after packaging. Same ultimate result, less risk of oxygen intrusion.

I recently started cold crashing in my fermenter vs. previously where I would cold crash in the keg. I’ve observed a lot more trub falling out due to cold crashing and a lot less trub in my kegs. Now when I need to move a 1/2 empty keg I don’t have to wait a day or two to drink it plus I see there’s less sludge in the keg once it’s blown.

I‘m skeptical that cold crashing itself increases risk of contamination as I’ve always understood that CO2 is heavier than air, so in essence you have a CO2 blanket protecting it. I always remove my blow off tube and replace with an s-type airlock to avoid suck back.

 

[Qhrumphf]

Call it strange....However I think my own perception of a beer has to do with the way it looks. Last year, I did back to back batches of NEIPA. I had one batch that eventually cleared(ish). When clear, it still had that great low bitterness, very juicy flavor and aroma...however I felt like it tasted better when it was hazy. When I tasted it with eyes closed, everything seemed similiar.

So, With that being said I don't mind pouring a pint of strikingly bright lager or WCIPA/ PA or anything of the sort. I don't have a fermentation fridge so I have to "lager" in keg when I'm making lagers. I've had lots of pale ale's fermented with US-05 that drop bright after a few weeks in the keg and they look beautiful.

It's not strange. Studies of NEIPAs are showing that significant portions of the character of NEIPAs are actually tied to the haze. If you strip out the haze you strip out a lot of the "juicy" hop character with it.

Can't say that's the case in your example. Can't separate out the various biases. But there's some grounding to it.

I recently started cold crashing in my fermenter vs. previously where I would cold crash in the keg. I’ve observed a lot more trub falling out due to cold crashing and a lot less trub in my kegs. Now when I need to move a 1/2 empty keg I don’t have to wait a day or two to drink it plus I see there’s less sludge in the keg once it’s blown.

I‘m skeptical that cold crashing itself increases risk of contamination as I’ve always understood that CO2 is heavier than air, so in essence you have a CO2 blanket protecting it. I always remove my blow off tube and replace with an s-type airlock to avoid suck back.

The CO2 blanket is a myth. If that were true, everyone living at lower elevations (someone could math the line) would die of CO2 poisoning as our atmosphere stratifies. Gas diffusion isn't immediate, but it'll become homogeneous pretty quickly.

The s-type airlock stops sani suckback. It replaces it with air. I'd rather suck back sani.

 

[rjhoff]

The CO2 blanket is a myth. If that were true, everyone living at lower elevations (someone could math the line) would die of CO2 poisoning as our atmosphere stratifies. Gas diffusion isn't immediate, but it'll become homogeneous pretty quickly.

The s-type airlock stops sani suckback. It replaces it with air. I'd rather suck back sani.

You can suck back all the sani you want, I prefer to keep that to a minimum
I wouldn’t argue your point on CO2 blanket, there’s a lot of myths in brewing, however I will say that with a lot of dry hopping, open transfers (CO2 push into an open top corner keg), and now cold crashing, I’ve never had a contaminated beer.

EDIT: I did some searching and reading on the CO2 blanket question and points made by both sides. My understanding has surely evolved from “trust what I’ve heard“ to exercising further caution. I rarely transfer to secondary but will be doing that with a Barleywine that I plan to condition for a month or two. For sure I’ll shoot CO2 into the headspace to minimize the air exposure before sealing the lid. Thanks for advancing my knowledge...

 

[ncbrewer]

This is a good demo of gas diffusion:

 

[corkybstewart]

Make sure to run your mash through a 122F to 129F protein rest for 20-30 mins. This helps a lot with clarity.

I think that would depend on the malt and the beer you're brewing. In 30 years of homebrewing I've done exactly one protein rest and couldn't see any difference.

 

[Knightshade]

Alright..so now I'm confused regarding Sani suck back. In the one instance (thus far) when I've had the misfortune of a blow up, which resulted in post mini explosion blow off tube setup...

When I cold crashed, I just removed the 3 piece airlock/blow off tube contraption, replaced with a sanitized piece of aluminum foil and anchored it down w/electrical tape. Because..I didn't want to suck back sanitizer. This was via an Anvil Kettle w/fermenter lid seal deal.

I was going to follow the same methodology w/the LBMB I posted in the pic above. I was a little too generous w/the wort and yeast starter (One batch was split into 2 LBMBs) in one, which resulted in needing to setup another 3 piece/blow off setup. I removed that once activity had settled down because I was paranoid for unknown reasons that the mason jar of sanitizer might somehow magically get knocked over in the fermentation chamber.

At any rate, I replaced those 3 piece airlocks with S airlocks at some point. Probably unnecessary, not sure why I did it. I have a camera setup in the FC and like to check in on it every once in awhile.

My intent was to remove the bungs w/airlocks and replace them w/the little plastic caps that the LBMBs have in their place when time to cold crash. Again..to negate any sanitizer suck back and/or undesirable air going into the fermenter during cold crashing.

What "should" I be doing?

 

[rjhoff]

All I can tell you is what I do: I use a blowoff tube into a jar of sanitizer through fermentation. I switch over to an s-type airlock for cold crash, which eliminates suck back with exception of some minor (Insignificant) bubbling out of the airlock. I’ve seen others say to foil/tape the opening but I choose not to do that and accept the risk of a little air getting into the vessel. I’m not saying this is the best approach, just what I’m doing at this time.

 

[VikeMan]

All I can tell you is what I do: I use a blowoff tube into a jar of sanitizer through fermentation. I switch over to an s-type airlock for cold crash, which eliminates suck back with exception of some minor (Insignificant) bubbling out of the airlock. I’ve seen others say to foil/tape the opening but I choose not to do that and accept the risk of a little air getting into the vessel.

I won't suggest that you should change your process if you are happy with the result. But FWIW, if the vessel isn't sealed and/or pressurized (or the surrounding environment also held at the same lower pressure), sucking air is not a risk, it's a certainty.

 

[rjhoff]

I won't suggest that you should change your process if you are happy with the result. But FWIW, if the vessel isn't sealed and/or pressurized (or the surrounding environment also held at the same lower pressure), sucking air is not a risk, it's a certainty.

That makes sense. I’m always using sealed vessels.
EDIT: I had to go back and read my post. I realize that using an s-type airlock will result in air being sucked in: I’m choosing to accept that risk.

 

[VikeMan]

That makes sense. I’m always using sealed vessels.

Ah. I thought you were using an "S" airlock.

 

[rjhoff]

Yeah we’re getting into the technicals here and I edited my last post to clarify. I consider a SS fermenter with clamped lid and silicone gasket, a bung w/ s-type airlock as sealed, with the exception of air being sucked in through the airlock when differential pressure exists, typically while the temperature drops. What I’m try to say is that (1) I know the air gets sucked in and (2) I accept (at this time) that it’s not sufficient to cause contamination / oxidation. I’ve CCd 5 batches this way (CC in fermenter) and have 4 of those on tap. So far so good, but I’ll adapt if I run into problems!

 

[Qhrumphf]

Crashing needs to be under positive CO2 pressure. That could be as simple as a balloon over the fermenter capturing CO2 that can then suck that back in.

When the beer chills it'll drop volume, dropping pressure, creating suction. That's what causes suck back. Either the fermenter is sealed under a partial vacuum (bad in most fermenters though not often catastrophic), or the volume is replaced. That bubbling "out" of your airlock is likely actually air bubbling in. If the vessel was actually sealed, when you broke the seal you'd HEAR it suck in to fill the vaccuum it generated.

If you can't cold crash in a CO2-only manner, don't cold crash. Simple as that. The visual benefit doesn't outweigh the damage it does. Not necessarily contamination (though possible), but definite oxidation.

 

[Immocles]

I have a thing for clear beer. It just gives me a warm fuzzy when I crack a bottle and its crystal clear. Depending on the yeast I'm using, most of my beers are clear/semi clear at bottling (14-20days in the fermenter). Lower floc yeasts usually drop clear in the bottle while carbing, then get an annoying chill haze that lasts about a week or so, then drops back to being crystal clear. I use whirfloc in the kettle, and cannot cold crash, so no gelatin either. I spoze with a crash and gelatin I'd get that clarity a lot sooner, but since I'm bottling they have to sit an additional couple weeks anyway. But I don't think I'm putting in any extra effort to get the clarity. Patience, maybe.

 

[Beermeister32]

I have a thing for clear beer. It just gives me a warm fuzzy when I crack a bottle and its crystal clear. Depending on the yeast I'm using, most of my beers are clear/semi clear at bottling (14-20days in the fermenter). Lower floc yeasts usually drop clear in the bottle while carbing, then get an annoying chill haze that lasts about a week or so, then drops back to being crystal clear. I use whirfloc in the kettle, and cannot cold crash, so no gelatin either. I spoze with a crash and gelatin I'd get that clarity a lot sooner, but since I'm bottling they have to sit an additional couple weeks anyway. But I don't think I'm putting in any extra effort to get the clarity. Patience, maybe.

Chill haze is caused by inadequate protein rest at 122F to 129F. Make sure to run your mash through 20-30 mins rest if you are experiencing chill haze with the malt you are using.