Does anyone boil with just an element?

[chefchris]

If so, what size element and what size batches? I'm trying to figure out if I can go all electric without the PIDs, SSRs, etc. I'm planning on just putting a 5500w in the HLT, but I read on here where a guy had an element just plugged straight into the BK and was getting 3+ gallon/hour boil off.

I usually do 6 gallon batches and the occasional 12 gallon. So is it possible to just plug-n-play? I'll be using a keg as a BK.

 

[Jmurm]

I would get a Pulse Width Modulator so you can adjust your boil, and use an SSR to control the element. But then you would have to go and buy a bunch of stuff. It might be possible to get a lower wattage and run it full, but then it would take for ever to heat up. Just my 2 cents.

 

[ThreeDogsNE]

I use four 1450 watt 120 volt heatsticks for 11 gallon batches. My boiloff this winter was about 3 gallons per hour, with 2 or 3 heatsticks sustaining a decent boil. No fancy electronics. Just plugs and outlets.

 

[BrewBeemer]

You want to enjoy brewing or you hate yourself everytime? Go with a PID unit not like your spending $300 to get this control, set it from 0% to 100% heat on time.

 

[Boar Beer]

1500 watts will work find for 10-15 gallon batches.

 

[IrregularPulse]

1500Watts to boil 10-15 gallons!? Most people go bigger than that just for their HLT. I'd imagine that would take forever to come to a boil if at all.

A PID is like $40.

 

[Boar Beer]

Brain cramp 5500 watts

 

[wilserbrewer]

Never used a keggle, but I have found that 2 elements at 2000w 120v will work pretty well for 5-10 gallons. With smaller batches, you may want to manually cycle the second element a few times during the boil, no big deal IMO.

 

[Boar Beer]

For the 40 gallon batches we use two 5500 watt elements and it works fine.

 

[sjlammer]

I use a 5500W Ripple element for 10 gallon batches in a keggle. works great. I use teh BCS 460 to achieve the necessary turndown once i reach boil.... the duty cycle on the BCS works ok... a PID duty cycle works better.

 

[Brewing Clamper]

When I first started with electric I used a 4500w element installed on a keggle. No power down, just straight plug to the 240 wall socket. My boil off was something close to 2g/hr. I basically only used it for 10g batches since it would boil too much for 5g batches. I've since build a PWM that will ramp it down once it reaches boil. It was actually pretty easy and it was fun. Most of the cost there was the junction box and the SSR, around $35 total.

 

[TBORBrew]

2000 w mounted element and 1500 w heat stick take 6 gallons from tap to boil in about 30 minutes in an 8 gallon kettle. I made extension cords with inline switches to control each element. I can power off one or the other depending on need. Typically the 2000 w is enough to maintain a vigorous boil once it is going. I'm not working the switches very often so I don't see the need yet for more automation. Boil off has been around 1 gallon per hour.

 

[Brewmoor]

My PWM circuit fouled up on my last brew. It was sending constant power to the element at any position I had it set at. My only way to control the element was to turn off the safety switch when it was starting to boil to hard, or about to boil over. On off on off on off. You get the point. I had to babysit the boil the whole time.

I have a 5500w element in a keggle. What a pain in the ass. You will not have fun using an element that large at full blast. Do yourself a favor and buy a solution to control the element. SSR can be purchased on ebay for cheap. I will sell you a PWM controller if can't make one yourself. You could also buy a PID for fairly cheap. In all you could have a control method for about $75. It is worth it.

 

[Brewing Clamper]

My PWM circuit fouled up on my last brew. It was sending constant power to the element at any position I had it set at. My only way to control the element was to turn off the safety switch when it was starting to boil to hard, or about to boil over. On off on off on off. You get the point. I had to babysit the boil the whole time.

What happened? What kind of circuit are you using for PWM?

 

[babalu87]

My PWM circuit fouled up on my last brew. It was sending constant power to the element at any position I had it set at. My only way to control the element was to turn off the safety switch when it was starting to boil to hard, or about to boil over. On off on off on off. You get the point. I had to babysit the boil the whole time.

I have a 5500w element in a keggle. What a pain in the ass. You will not have fun using an element that large at full blast. Do yourself a favor and buy a solution to control the element. SSR can be purchased on ebay for cheap. I will sell you a PWM controller if can't make one yourself. You could also buy a PID for fairly cheap. In all you could have a control method for about $75. It is worth it.

Is it redundant to have a PID
AND
A PWM?

Asking because I am running a 4500 watt element with a PID (through relays)

Once it gets to boil it keeps the wort boiling but its not steady as I have the PID set at a one second refresh rate.

I get good boil off and no issues as far as the beer is concerned, just wondering if there is a better/more efficient way?

 

[Brewmoor]

I used the schematics from this website to make my circuit
http://home.highertech.net/~cdp/boilnew/boilnew.htm

I am not sure what is going on with it yet. I have not had a chance to troubleshoot. I just finished the brew and put it away for the most part. One thing I did check was the SSR. It seems to be functioning correctly so I assume it is the circuit. I need to crack into the control panel to check things out. I have another PWM circuit waiting as backup if it is fried. I made two for issues like this.

 

[Brewmoor]

Is it redundant to have a PID
AND
A PWM?

Asking because I am running a 4500 watt element with a PID (through relays)

Once it gets to boil it keeps the wort boiling but its not steady as I have the PID set at a one second refresh rate.

I get good boil off and no issues as far as the beer is concerned, just wondering if there is a better/more efficient way?

Yeah it would be redundant. There is no need for two ways to control the same kettle. Do you have a HLT? Does it have a PID? If not you could use the PID for the HLT and use a PWM for the boil kettle.

Are you using Manual mode on your PID? I am not familiar with how that works but it has been posted on here many places that you can control the boil manually with a PID. Just seems more complicated then using a Knob and PWM.

 

[Brewing Clamper]

It's probably a short somewhere. Check the wires. I made the same circuit and there really isn't a place where it can fail on, unless the 555 gets stuck, and even then it most likely would fail off. It was actually pretty fun to make. I made a backup too just so I would have another board to etch...

 

[babalu87]

Yeah it would be redundant. There is no need for two ways to control the same kettle. Do you have a HLT? Does it have a PID? If not you could use the PID for the HLT and use a PWM for the boil kettle.

Are you using Manual mode on your PID? I am not familiar with how that works but it has been posted on here many places that you can control the boil manually with a PID. Just seems more complicated then using a Knob and PWM.

Thanks

I set the PID to 214 and it takes care of the rest

My HLT will be built one day, just have to get off my ass and build it.

I was just glad to get away from the propane NOISE!!!!!!!!!!!

Brewing is nice and quiet now.

Cant really have a rig
Store everything in the basement
Brew either outside on the deck or in the kitchen (if its raining)
No garage

 

[shushikiary]

I use 2x 5500 watt elements in a keggle. I can have both on for 11kw, one on for 5500kw or them wired in series for 2750kw. It takes under 10 min to get 6 gallons to boil, then I switch them to in series and let it boil the rest of the batch at that power, works great, I get about 1 gallon of boil off in 1 hour (16.67% by volume). No PID, quick boil, and controlled boil... but PID would give you exact control.

 

[passedpawn]

I do 5500W element in a keggle. Here's what you can expect. This is real, untouched data. The flat part at the end of the graph is the boil.

10 gallons.

click for big one


5500W is really too much to leave on continuously. Some sort of control is necessary to dial down the power once you reach boil.

 

[ralph]

I read that it takes 540 calories to convert 1g of water from liquid to gas at 100 degrees C, and water is 3787.5 g/gallon, so that's 2.379 kWh. So it seems to me that a 2379 watt element (if it were 100% efficient) would boil off 1 gallon per hour. Of course some heat leaves the kettle via the sides...

 

[babalu87]

I read that it takes 540 calories to convert 1g of water from liquid to gas at 100 degrees C, and water is 3787.5 g/gallon, so that's 2379 kWh. So it seems to me that a 2379 watt element (if it were 100% efficient) would boil off 1 gallon per hour. Of course some heat leaves the kettle via the sides...

Not if its insulated

I assume SOME leaves the sides on mine but not very much.

 

[passedpawn]

I read that it takes 540 calories to convert 1g of water from liquid to gas at 100 degrees C, and water is 3787.5 g/gallon, so that's 2379 kWh. So it seems to me that a 2379 watt element (if it were 100% efficient) would boil off 1 gallon per hour. Of course some heat leaves the kettle via the sides...

Yes. That is completely correct. BTW, the element is 100% efficient. It is possible that it's not getting full power due to SSR or switch resistances, etc., but any current reaching the element will be converted to heat, which will be 100% conducted into the fluid.

Non-linearity in the graph above is due to losses to environment. This was an uninsulated, uncovered keggle with 10 gallons water.

It's been amazing to me how predictable my electric system has been. It's difficult not to be an evangelist given its advantages.