Does anybody pre boil their water to reduce bicarbs?

[Sgwilson]

If so can you walk me thru your process/ results? I just got my water report back in my bicarbonate are at 371 or so. Which is obviously, pretty high. I was wondering if there was a non-chemical way to reduce that number, I've heard boiling will do that if there is a chemical option I'm open to it as well but figured it might be cleaner to just boil water in advance of brew day

 

[Miraculix]

Here is some nice info :

https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=5792.0

 

[dmtaylor]

My water is less than half as hard as yours. I tried preboiling on my last couple of batches. But who knows if it really matters. For really hard water it probably helps. For others, probably not so much.

 

[Miraculix]

Mine is pretty much the hardest water ever and managed to brew a really nice ipa with it after I pre boiled everything in a standard water boiler. Needed to refill that one quite a bit but it seems to have worked out for me!

 

[Chris-18]

I do it for all beers I brew, except imperial stouts.

My water is
110 Ca
356 HCO3

The bicarbonate is insane here, as all our water is groundwater. I spoke to John Palmer about this and he was very kind to help me with the calculations. I add 1 gram of calcium sulfate to the water before the boil pr. 20 liters, then boil for 30 mins and cool overnight. Then I decant off the water and leave behind the sediment.

I then add salts depending on the beer I brew, so more calcium sulfate for IPA's, calcium chloride for malty beers and so on. Obviously this is to hit the target mash pH.

I much prefer this to adding acid, especially lactic, as it has a tendancy to show up in the flavor of the finished beer. I just use lactic to control the small changes in mash pH.

 

[ajdelange]

There isn't much to it. For a thorough treatment of the subject download http://wetnewf.org/pdfs/Brewing_articles/BT_Alkalinity_II/AlkalinityPtII.pdf. If you don't want to be bothered with all that there are a couple of essential points that many prescriptions miss.

1. The process will usually reduce the smaller of the alkalinity or calcium hardness to 1 mEq/L (50 ppm as CaCO3). Thus if you have water with 2.5 mEq/L alkalinity (125 ppm as CaCO3) and hardness of 2 mEq/L (100 ppm as CaCO3, 40 mg/L as the ion) the hardness will go down to 1 mEq per liter.
2. The larger will be reduced by the same amount as the smaller. In the example in 1) the hardness was reduced by 1 mEq/L and so, thus will the alkalinity be: 2.5 - 1 = 1.5.
3. Because of the above an obvious trick is to increase the hardness if it is less than the alkalinity. In the example here increasing the calcium to 2.5 mEq/L will result in both alkalinity and hardness being reduced to 1 mEq/L.
4. You may well want more than 1 mEq/L (20 mg/L). If so add that into your calculations. If you wanted 2.5 after the boil understand that the alkalinity will be reduced from 2.5 to 1 with calcium supplementation implying a reduction of 1.5 in the hardness as well. If you want 2.5 mEq/L calcium after the boil and have, in this example, 2 to start with and will lose 1.5 leaving 0.5 then you need to add 2 before the boil. Check: You originally have 2.0. You add 2 giving 4. You drop 1.5 and thus have 2.5 left.
5. Add a little precipitated chalk to the water before boiling in order to provide nucleation sites and thus promote precipitation
6. If you can, raise the pH of the water by adding a bit of some base. Ca(OH)2 is ideal for this.

You can, of course, save yourself the trouble (and risk) of boiling by using just Ca(OH)2. All the enumerated tips still apply.

 

[ajdelange]

I add 1 gram of calcium sulfate to the water before the boil ...

I then add salts depending on the beer I brew, so more calcium sulfate for IPA's, calcium chloride for malty beers and so on.

Add these additional calcium salts before the boil. This lets you remove even more bicarbonate. But keep in mind that extra bicarbonate removed means extra calcium removed too. It is important, if decarbonating by boiling or lime, that alkalinity and hardness tests be run on the treated water as it is never certain exactly how much of each will be removed.

 

[Chris-18]

Add these additional calcium salts before the boil. This lets you remove even more bicarbonate. But keep in mind that extra bicarbonate removed means extra calcium removed too. It is important, if decarbonating by boiling or lime, that alkalinity and hardness tests be run on the treated water as it is never certain exactly how much of each will be removed.

Is that really the way to do it, if you are adding the minerals in order to control mash pH?
I have always been told to add the minerals to the mash directly or to the water just before the grist is added.

 

[z-bob]

He's talking about adding soluble calcium (and I don't think the calcium in added Ca(OH)2 or chalk counts because it all drops out) to balance the alkalinity before boiling, so more carbonate can be precipitated out by boiling.

My bicarbonate level is almost as high as Sgwilson's. I suspect I will end up doing lime treatment eventually, but I'm still playing with acids and diluting with RO water.

 

[ajdelange]

Is that really the way to do it, if you are adding the minerals in order to control mash pH?

You don't use calcium salts to control mash pH. That is done with acid. Calcium does have an effect on mash pH but it is, unless you are doing a gram per liter gypsum thing, quite small. Adding 5 mEq/L calcium (100 mg/L) will generally effect pH by about 0.035. But it is true that you should account for added or precipitated calcium. That is why it is so important to measure the calcium (and alkalinity) content of your treated water.

I have always been told to add the minerals to the mash directly or to the water just before the grist is added.

You can do that if you wish but putting the additional calcium in before boiling is a great way to get rid of some extra bicarbonate.

 

[Chris-18]

Is that really the way to do it, if you are adding the minerals in order to control mash pH?

You don't use calcium salts to control mash pH. That is done with acid. Calcium does have an effect on mash pH but it is, unless you are doing a gram per liter gypsum thing, quite small. Adding 5 mEq/L calcium (100 mg/L) will generally effect pH by about 0.035. But it is true that you should account for added or precipitated calcium. That is why it is so important to measure the calcium (and alkalinity) content of your treated water.


You can do that if you wish but putting the additional calcium in before boiling is a great way to get rid of some extra bicarbonate.

Ahh I see, that actually makes a lot more sense in regards to the measurements I sometimes make in the mash!

Thanks