Do you REALLY save any money by brewing your own beer?

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WOW!!!!!! All I can say is wow!!! I loved this past 20 minutes reading this debate.
Tahnks everyone for such a good time that only cost me 20 mins.
 
stale said:
WOW!!!!!! All I can say is wow!!! I loved this past 20 minutes reading this debate.
Tahnks everyone for such a good time that only cost me 20 mins.

Did it cost you 20 minutes, or did it cost you the wage that you could have earned in 20 minutes?
 
so after reading some of the thread that led to the creation of EAC, I have to ask, what is RDWSMB? I tried doing a search, and all it returned was the EAC thread.:confused:
 
rabidgerbil said:
so after reading some of the thread that led to the creation of EAC, I have to ask, what is RDWSMB? I tried doing a search, and all it returned was the EAC thread.:confused:

Relax, Don't Worry, Save Money Brewing. (Or not.)
 
I stole this Sam Adams Clone Recipe from http://www.homebrewhome.com
and stepped it up to 25 gallons:
20lb light LME @ $2.50/lb - $50
2.5lbs Crystal 60L @ $2/lb - $5
12.5lbs Cara-pils @ $2/lb - $25
7.5oz Tett @ $2/oz - $15
2.5oz Hall @ $2/oz - $5

Total cost - $100
Yield 25gal / 3200oz / 266btls / 11cases

I pay over $25/case at my local dist. Thats about $300, or $200 saved.
Say I spend 10 hours including cleaning... $20/hr "under the table" - that's not bad for a part time job!
(just don't ask me how much I've spent on equipment:eek: )
 
kinison_fan said:
Around here, a good commercial beer is 30-35 a case (i.e. Victory), and 18-20 for regular everyday beer (Yuengling).

never heard of either
 
I just spent $25 reading this thread and now I'm going to watch $100 worth of TV with SWMBO :ban:
 
mr x said:
I think a better way to look at the situation is:

'What would I be doing today if I wasn't brewing'?

I was supposed to be brewing today, but I busted a coupling and that got put off. So what did I do - went out to Costco and spent $100 on pickled beets and chocolate milk. ANd other stuff I basically didn't need. Would I have bought it anyway, who knows. Probably not half that bill.

So maybe brewing would have saved me money.lol

As far as I am concerned, unless you would, could, and should be getting paid by somebody for doing labour instead of brewing, then you have no loss of wages, so you have no labour costs.


Exactly it is like cooking pizza, or any other food for ones self. One does not worry about how much time it takes, and consider paying ones self for lost wages. It is just plain cheaper to pick up the ingredients and make it ones self. So, going all grain picking up the ingredients and making it ones self is cheaper. I would argue that even the equipment could be looked at this way. You don't factor in cost of pots, pans, spoons, forks, ext. when one cooks dinner, so why would you do it for home brew. Of coarse it is cheaper just like making iced tea V.S. buying Arizonian, or making coffee V.S. buying Starbucks. In the long run making it at home is cheaper than buying it already made but not more convenient.
 
mr x said:
I think a better way to look at the situation is:

'What would I be doing today if I wasn't brewing'?

I was supposed to be brewing today, but I busted a coupling and that got put off. So what did I do - went out to Costco and spent $100 on pickled beets and chocolate milk. ANd other stuff I basically didn't need. Would I have bought it anyway, who knows. Probably not half that bill.

So maybe brewing would have saved me money.lol

As far as I am concerned, unless you would, could, and should be getting paid by somebody for doing labour instead of brewing, then you have no loss of wages, so you have no labour costs.


Exactly it is like cooking pizza, or any other food for ones self. One does not worry about how much time it takes, and consider paying ones self for lost wages. It is just plain cheaper to pick up the ingredients and make it ones self. So, going all grain picking up the ingredients and making it ones self is cheaper. I would argue that even the equipment could be looked at this way. You don't factor in cost of pots, pans, spoons, forks, ext. when one cooks dinner, so why would you do it for home brew. Of coarse it is cheaper just like making iced tea V.S. buying Arizonian, or making coffee V.S. buying Starbucks. In the long run making it at home is cheaper than buying it already made but not more convenient.
 
"Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts"

-- Albert Einstein

TTID2M
 
Because I am a jerk:

This whole idea of labor cost is ridiculous. Your life is your life, not a business.

Bob has 6 bucks, he wants a pie. He can either go out a buy a pie (6 bucks), or buy the ingredients to make the pie (4 bucks). Making a pie will save him 2 bucks, regardless of how long it takes him to make the pie. Yes the pie has to be heated in the oven and the dishes washed blah blah blah, you can always factor that in, but this is minimal.

Time is not a factor, the whole point is using your time to save your money you so it stays in your pocket. That's why if you are on a fixed budget, need to save money, or whatever, you'll spend more time making meals than going out to eat, etc.

And no, you'll never save money by homebrewing as a hobby...
:mug:
 
I agree that labor shouldn't be factored in. I posted the question yesterday morning before going to work, then checked the responses when I got home. When I saw something like 95 responses I thought there'd be lots of great ideas on ways to save money with certain recipes, or by shopping at certain stores/websites. But probably 80% of it was about the labor cost debate.

I certainly appreciate all the feedback, but I think we got a tad bit off the original topic. Regardless, thanks to all who replied. :)
 
iamjonsharp said:
Because I am a jerk:

This whole idea of labor cost is ridiculous. Your life is your life, not a business.

Bob has 6 bucks, he wants a pie. He can either go out a buy a pie (6 bucks), or buy the ingredients to make the pie (4 bucks). Making a pie will save him 2 bucks, regardless of how long it takes him to make the pie. Yes the pie has to be heated in the oven and the dishes washed blah blah blah, you can always factor that in, but this is minimal.

Time is not a factor, the whole point is using your time to save your money you so it stays in your pocket. That's why if you are on a fixed budget, need to save money, or whatever, you'll spend more time making meals than going out to eat, etc.

And no, you'll never save money by homebrewing as a hobby...
:mug:

Because Im a jerk as well :p

You will save money by homebrewing as a hobby if you do it right, like I do.
 
AZ_Brew_Dude said:
I agree that labor shouldn't be factored in. I posted the question yesterday morning before going to work, then checked the responses when I got home. When I saw something like 95 responses I thought there'd be lots of great ideas on ways to save money with certain recipes, or by shopping at certain stores/websites. But probably 80% of it was about the labor cost debate.

I certainly appreciate all the feedback, but I think we got a tad bit off the original topic. Regardless, thanks to all who replied. :)

Bigger batches will take nearly the same amount of time as small batches.
Buying in bulk will always save money. Look into group buys to maximize this.
Growing hops is, well, almost free.
Yeast can be re-used by several means. You can find many on this sight.
AG will generally cost less than Extract. Sometimes, depending on how you buy, it can be close or the other way around.
Efficiency and time can be sacrificed in exchange to save money on equipment. Or vice-versa.
As far as recipes, any specialty grains add to the cost. LME is cheaper than DME, but a little tougher to store. Higher AA hops will provide more bitterness at less cost. Buying liquid yeast is a big cost addition. The addition of dextrose can increase alcohol content cheaply, but can add cidery characteristics.
Hypothetically:
10lbs Pale 2 Row - $10
1lb Misc Specialty Grains - $2
2.5oz Homegrown Hops - Free
Reuse Yeast from last batch - Free

About $5/case. I'd say, "You REALLY save money buy homebrewing beer!"
 
Because I’m a jerk too…

I have a 4 year old son. The other day he had a choice between going to his friend Jon’s house and playing with Jon’s toys or going to the science museum and doing the fun stuff there. My son chose to go the museum rather than go to Jon’s. Giving up the chance to play with Jon’s toys was the cost to my son of choosing to go to the museum. It was his opportunity cost of going to the museum.

In the same way, when you choose to spend time brewing you are giving up the opportunity to do something else. It doesn’t matter what that other thing was. It could be working, it could be cleaning the cat’s litter box, it could be lying on the beach with a supermodel, it could be sitting in a dark room doing nothing at all. No matter what that other thing was it had some value to you or you wouldn’t consider doing it in the first place. Giving up doing that other thing is your opportunity cost of homebrewing.

So you see, your time, your life, every choice you make, does have a cost, even if you are doing something you love like homebrewing. It may not be possible to put a clear monetary value on opportunity cost, but it is there anyway even if you choose not to admit it.

Opportunity cost is different from monetary cost. Cutting my lawn myself costs me less money than paying someone to do it for me. So cutting my own lawn saves me money, but it costs me in time. Time I could spend doing something else (like brewing). So my monetary cost is (almost) zero, but my opportunity cost is NOT zero.

Now, the specific question is “Does homebrewing cost less compared to purchasing an equivalent amount of commercial beer?” Monetarily, the answer is “Yes”. The money you spend to make homebrew is generally less than the money you would spend to purchase an equivalent amount of commercial beer.

However, unless you live in BFE it takes a lot more time to make homebrew than it does to run to the store and buy beer and THE COST OF THAT TIME IS NOT ZERO. Whether your opportunity cost is $0.01/hour or $100/hour, or even unquantifiable, as long as you spend more time brewing beer than what it would take you to buy it, homebrewing is more costly.

So far this thread has only been about costs and not benefits. The benefits of homebrewing are hard to quantify, but they include the satisfaction of drinking a beer that you made yourself, being part of the homebrewing community, the pride of craftsmanship, and the joy of learning about beer and brewing, among other things. Clearly, we don’t get those same benefits from two cases of Sam Adams. Even though the true costs of homebrewing are higher than the costs of buying commercial beer, the benefits of homebrewing are even greater, and this is why we choose to do it.
 
I can't believe this thread has gone on this long, or raised the kind of debate it has, but I need to throw in another ¢2:
Brewing for me has alot of similarities to fishing. I absolutely love to go fishing. Notice I didn't say I love to catch fish, as it's the act of trying to find the right lure/bait, pick the right place and time of year for a particular fish, and have the proper tackle. Sure, there's that great feeling of landing the big one, but I can honestly say that if I catch nothing I still had a great time. I've got thousands wrapped up in rods, reels, terminal tackle and a 16' boat. That kind of dough buys a hell of a lot of Gorton's fish sticks, let alone wild caught Alaskan halibut.

Brewing for me so far has been about the experience, and the education. The beer I got was free. The cost of the equipment was basically lab supplies, aside from one piece of software that I was rather upset with, and learning the basics of fermentation and recipe making has been well worth every penny spent so far, for me anyways.

I'll conclude this note with this: I'm going to go pay up for a subscription to this site, finally. I think it's the least I could do for the greatest source of learning for me to date with this endeavor.

Thank you all,
Matt
 
Not no but F*ck NO......I am buried in equipment and procedural costs..Is it WORTH my time..YES!!!!!!! cheaper...NO
 
The whole original point of this thread was about saving money. My free time is not worth any amount of money. I can't trade 5 hours of my weekend in for $50 bucks, $5 bucks, or 5 cents.

As Ó Flannagáin pointed out, if you plan it right you can save money homebrewing. If you typically buy a couple cases of beer of month, and replace that with a 5 gallon batch of homebrew, you can easily save money.

Yes of course you can do something else with your time, or whatever, but that really has little to do with saving money. Granted I think the majority of people here don't save money because like any hobby, it is something we want to put more money in because we love doing it so much.
:mug:
 
This all breaks down into something pretty simple, guys - If you brew your own beer to save money, you're doing it for the wrong reasons.

Of course we're always trying to cut costs by doing things like washing yeast, buying grain in bulk, etc., etc. but in the long run, most of us enjoy the brew toys too much to actually end up saving money in the long run. I know I do.
 
ohiobrewtus said:
This all breaks down into something pretty simple, guys - If you brew your own beer to save money, you're doing it for the wrong reasons.

Of course we're always trying to cut costs by doing things like washing yeast, buying grain in bulk, etc., etc. but in the long run, most of us enjoy the brew toys too much to actually end up saving money in the long run. I know I do.

I really don't have any toys that aren't necessary though. My latest purchase in equipment was a keggle, but it was really necessary and only $80. Other than that, I haven't bought anything since I started all grain in February. That was cheap as hell, a cooler, some copper tubing, a chiller and a corona mill.
 
Ó Flannagáin said:
I really don't have any toys that aren't necessary though. My latest purchase in equipment was a keggle, but it was really necessary and only $80. Other than that, I haven't bought anything since I started all grain in February. That was cheap as hell, a cooler, some copper tubing, a chiller and a corona mill.
I know what you mean, but you will - just wait. You're already justifying a keggle and corona mill (both not necessary). ;)

I started out really cheap, too. I used an unconverted cooler, bucket-in-bucket lauter tun, a turkey fryer, and I bottled. However, since then I've added things like a 3-tier stand with burners, plumbing, etc., 3 keggles with valves, thermosights, and digital thermos, a kegerator w/ perlicks, march pump, barley crusher, CFC, thrumometer, and the list goes on. Clearly nothing on that list is necessary because I made good beer before I had any of it.

That's just how hobbies are for me. Like I said before, I've got to brew A LOT of beer before I break even. The problem is, by the time I get there I will have spent more. I'll never catch up in this game, but I don't care.
 
iamjonsharp said:
Because I am a jerk:

This whole idea of labor cost is ridiculous. Your life is your life, not a business.

Bob has 6 bucks, he wants a pie. He can either go out a buy a pie (6 bucks), or buy the ingredients to make the pie (4 bucks). Making a pie will save him 2 bucks, regardless of how long it takes him to make the pie. Yes the pie has to be heated in the oven and the dishes washed blah blah blah, you can always factor that in, but this is minimal.

Time is not a factor, the whole point is using your time to save your money you so it stays in your pocket. That's why if you are on a fixed budget, need to save money, or whatever, you'll spend more time making meals than going out to eat, etc.

And no, you'll never save money by homebrewing as a hobby...
:mug:

You're talking in circles here man. Your pie arguement is valid but the math is wrong. If the question is how can he get the pie cheapest, it's obviously buy not make. Saying you shouldn't factor in the labor is to suggest that Bob LIKES to bake pies and it's a source of enjoyment (notice that IS NOT the question). If the question is which is CHEAPER, you must factor in everything if you're interested in being honest. Fuel cost to the store (probably a wash for buy vs. make because you still have to buy ingredients). But the natural gas used in baking, cleaning up, and the baker's TIME must be factored in if the question is "which is cheaper". If you don't factor everything in, you're creating false economy.

And then you say "And no, you'll never save money by homebrewing as a hobby..."
which was my whole point throughout the entire thread and that's the OP's question I was trying to answer.
 
If you could brew beer, in half the time that it takes you now, with equal enjoyment, would you?

This would allow you to do other things, including.... brew another batch.

Some of you already brew 10 gallon batches because there is a time savings.

This demonstrates that your time has value.

We typically use quarts and gallons to measure water. You can also measure water in terms of mass, electrical conductivity, density, etc. Your time can be measured in hard units, such as hours, seconds and softer ones like quality and happiness (expressed in survey). It is also expressed in a wage and it is used by economists everyday to make predictions about the behavior of groups of people and individuals if enough information is available. You may not be willing to express it in those terms, but monetary values are the proxies that economists use to explain behavior.

For those that say there time as $0 labor cost because you would brew no matter what, you are actually saying that your labor cost is high, really high, so much so that you can't put a price on it. You are saying that your time is scarce, that it is not unlimited. Hops are scarce and their prices have risen. Your labor is just like any other ingredient in the process.

The OP has requested that we all move on and earlier I expressed that sentiment. I'm considering spinning this off into a new thread, but that's going to take a bit.
 
5isnotenough said:
Bigger batches will take nearly the same amount of time as small batches.
Buying in bulk will always save money. Look into group buys to maximize this.
Growing hops is, well, almost free.
Yeast can be re-used by several means. You can find many on this sight.
AG will generally cost less than Extract. Sometimes, depending on how you buy, it can be close or the other way around.
Efficiency and time can be sacrificed in exchange to save money on equipment. Or vice-versa.
As far as recipes, any specialty grains add to the cost. LME is cheaper than DME, but a little tougher to store. Higher AA hops will provide more bitterness at less cost. Buying liquid yeast is a big cost addition. The addition of dextrose can increase alcohol content cheaply, but can add cidery characteristics.
Hypothetically:
10lbs Pale 2 Row - $10
1lb Misc Specialty Grains - $2
2.5oz Homegrown Hops - Free
Reuse Yeast from last batch - Free

About $5/case. I'd say, "You REALLY save money buy homebrewing beer!"

I only continue posting to this thread because I find the debate pretty interesting despite the fact that my personal involvement in the hobby has nothing to do with saving money. That being said, all those money saving tactics have hidden costs that ultimately change the answer in your last sentence.

Yes, it's true, that while you're already committed to brewing no matter what, there are things you can do to save money but those "things you do" take a lot of time. Hops don't just grow by themselves generally. You have to buy rhizomes, plant them, tend to them, harvest them, dry them, store them (usually cold). Harvesting yeast takes time, then you store it cold. You mentioned economy of scale and that one I do agree with but you also use a ton more energy to heat water and boil the wort when you scale up so you can't ignore that. You get lucky if you climate doesn't require fermentation temp control because if you do, you're either paying in equipment and energy. And if you really want to be honest about your brewing costs (many couldn't care less including me), then you really do need to count the upfront equipment cost at some ammortized rate per batch.

Many have said it before, getting into homebrewing to save money on beer costs is a losing proposition. It's easy for us to avoid looking at all the factors because we don't really care what it costs since we're already in and committed. If someone really wants to know the cost of brewing, it's not cheap.
 
olllllo said:
The OP has requested that we all move on and earlier I expressed that sentiment. I'm considering spinning this off into a new thread, but that's going to take a bit.

I agree it's actually a dead topic from the OP's perspective but it spawned some interesting discussion I think. The split threads would be something like "how can we brew for the least amount of money?" (I think there's a recent thread on that one) and "what are the actual costs involved in brewing". In any case, I do agree that thread has run it's course and I'm hoping to find other threads to waste my boss's time on.
 
Bob drinks 2 cases of beer a month, costing about $45 bucks. He decides to start homebrewing 1 batch of beer a month. We are talking session beers here, pales ales, bitters. Bob likes the good stuff, no BMC for him, he just wants to make enough beer to save him money because he doesn't like paying a buck a pop.

Upfront Costs
Basic Starter Kit 67.99
Hurricane Burner 100
Propane Tank 20 (not filled)
Plastic Tub for sanitizing equipment/bottles 5
8 and 10 gallon aluminum pots $100
Igloo cooler mash tun 40
Tubing 5

Total $340

Per batch:
Beer Ingredient Kit 15-25 bucks (includes caps/priming sugar)
4 bucks worth of propane
1 buck water/sanitizer/cleaning

Cost per batch $20-$30

So Bob will save $15 to $25 per batch making beer instead of buying it. Of course, he first has to pay off his upfront costs. Let's say he saves $20 bucks per batch. It will take him 17 batches of beer (17 months) before he breaks even. That's OK will Bob, he's in it for the long term, as he does love his beer.

Unfortunately, Bob really loves beer and really loves making it too. He starts to want glass carboys, a keggle, the latest gadgets, a brewing sculpture! And he needs a freezer so he can lager! And Bob wants to Keg! He's now brewing 2 times a month, sometimes 3! And the things he can make! Double IPAs! Imperial Stout! Barleywine! And his friends all love his beer! A single batch doesn't seem to last a month anymore, let alone 1 week! Bob used to just want to make enough beer to meet his prior drinking needs, but now he's found a hobby that he loves and enjoys! Hooray!
 
iamjonsharp said:
A single batch doesn't seem to last a month anymore, let alone 1 week!

Not to be an EAC, but with expressions like "let alone", "much less", or "never mind", the lesser example comes first.

Examples:
A single batch doesn't seem to last a week anymore, let alone a whole month.
A single batch doesn't seem to last a week anymore, never mind a whole month.
A single batch doesn't seem to last a week anymore, much less a whole month.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled drinking. :mug:
 
I'm having a difficult time figuring out what goes where. The OP can PM me and identify the post. I'll work from there.

For the time being, discuss ingredients and equipment. Labor (Labour) hold thy tongue.
 
Bobby_M said:
Ollllo, why not just close this thread altogether and save it for entertainment later.

Yeah, we can all sit around drinking a homebrew and saying "remember when we sat around arguing about the value of our time vs the value of a hobby!?"
 
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