Do you REALLY save any money by brewing your own beer?

[Bobby_M]

The OP has requested that we all move on and earlier I expressed that sentiment. I'm considering spinning this off into a new thread, but that's going to take a bit.

I agree it's actually a dead topic from the OP's perspective but it spawned some interesting discussion I think. The split threads would be something like "how can we brew for the least amount of money?" (I think there's a recent thread on that one) and "what are the actual costs involved in brewing". In any case, I do agree that thread has run it's course and I'm hoping to find other threads to waste my boss's time on.

 

[rabidgerbil]

or maybe, "How much have you spent on brew gear?"

 

[Lil' Sparky]

or maybe, "How much have you spent on brew gear?"

We did one of those a while back, but it might be worth reviving.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=22045

 

[iamjonsharp]

Bob drinks 2 cases of beer a month, costing about $45 bucks. He decides to start homebrewing 1 batch of beer a month. We are talking session beers here, pales ales, bitters. Bob likes the good stuff, no BMC for him, he just wants to make enough beer to save him money because he doesn't like paying a buck a pop.

Upfront Costs
Basic Starter Kit 67.99
Hurricane Burner 100
Propane Tank 20 (not filled)
Plastic Tub for sanitizing equipment/bottles 5
8 and 10 gallon aluminum pots $100
Igloo cooler mash tun 40
Tubing 5

Total $340

Per batch:
Beer Ingredient Kit 15-25 bucks (includes caps/priming sugar)
4 bucks worth of propane
1 buck water/sanitizer/cleaning

Cost per batch $20-$30

So Bob will save $15 to $25 per batch making beer instead of buying it. Of course, he first has to pay off his upfront costs. Let's say he saves $20 bucks per batch. It will take him 17 batches of beer (17 months) before he breaks even. That's OK will Bob, he's in it for the long term, as he does love his beer.

Unfortunately, Bob really loves beer and really loves making it too. He starts to want glass carboys, a keggle, the latest gadgets, a brewing sculpture! And he needs a freezer so he can lager! And Bob wants to Keg! He's now brewing 2 times a month, sometimes 3! And the things he can make! Double IPAs! Imperial Stout! Barleywine! And his friends all love his beer! A single batch doesn't seem to last a month anymore, let alone 1 week! Bob used to just want to make enough beer to meet his prior drinking needs, but now he's found a hobby that he loves and enjoys! Hooray!

 

[Lil' Sparky]

Hello, my name is Bob.

 

[rabidgerbil]

A single batch doesn't seem to last a month anymore, let alone 1 week!

Not to be an EAC, but with expressions like "let alone", "much less", or "never mind", the lesser example comes first.

Examples:
A single batch doesn't seem to last a week anymore, let alone a whole month.
A single batch doesn't seem to last a week anymore, never mind a whole month.
A single batch doesn't seem to last a week anymore, much less a whole month.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled drinking.

 

[olllllo]

I'm having a difficult time figuring out what goes where. The OP can PM me and identify the post. I'll work from there.

For the time being, discuss ingredients and equipment. Labor (Labour) hold thy tongue.

 

[Bobby_M]

Ollllo, why not just close this thread altogether and save it for entertainment later.

 

[rabidgerbil]

Ollllo, why not just close this thread altogether and save it for entertainment later.

Yeah, we can all sit around drinking a homebrew and saying "remember when we sat around arguing about the value of our time vs the value of a hobby!?"

 

[Glibbidy]

Does a bear poop in the woods?

 

[AZ_Brew_Dude]

This thread kicks ass. Not only did I spark a huge debate, but I also learned the meaning of an EAC... which I will be sure to start adding in my everyday conversations now...

 

[cheezydemon]

East Australian Current....right? Like in Finding Nemo? Right?eac.....eac....hmmmmm

 

[gyrfalcon]

I know the primary reason to get into homebrewing shouldn't be to save a few bucks on beer. But that's one of the frequent "advantages" I hear, and it doesn't really seem any cheaper.

Well if you're into all grain, and ferment large batches I'm fairly sure it's cheaper... Everything gets cheaper with volume.

I'm not trying to argue with you, but northern brewer sells a British Bitter Extract kit w/ Crushed Grain for $22.50.

If that brews 5 gallons you have 640 US fluid ounces which would give you 48, 12oz bottles of beer, or four 12packs. I'm not sure where you shop but a 12 pack of beer is generally around $10+. So for under $30 you're getting more than $40 worth of retail beer.

 

[gyrfalcon]

Hello, my name is Bob.

and I'm an Alcoholic?

j/k

 

[Ó Flannagáin]

I know what you mean, but you will - just wait. You're already justifying a keggle and corona mill (both not necessary).

I started out really cheap, too. I used an unconverted cooler, bucket-in-bucket lauter tun, a turkey fryer, and I bottled. However, since then I've added things like a 3-tier stand with burners, plumbing, etc., 3 keggles with valves, thermosights, and digital thermos, a kegerator w/ perlicks, march pump, barley crusher, CFC, thrumometer, and the list goes on. Clearly nothing on that list is necessary because I made good beer before I had any of it.

That's just how hobbies are for me. Like I said before, I've got to brew A LOT of beer before I break even. The problem is, by the time I get there I will have spent more. I'll never catch up in this game, but I don't care.

Ok, I'll give you the keggle... not necessary, but in order to buy in bulk and save money I needed to get my own mill. And it was cheeeap.

 

[gyrfalcon]

Omar at Surly Brewing in the Twin Cities says that it's a myth that you can save money by brewing your own beer - but his reasoning is that it would have been a whole lot cheaper for him to buy some beer than to open a brewery :-D

I think it's safe to say that Omar is making a fair amount of money with his expensive brewery.

 

[gyrfalcon]

Ok, modified response is that in the U.S., you CAN buy beer for less than it would cost to make the equivelent at home (all things considered) even though Most, if not ALL homebrewers' enjoyment of the process offsets the additional cost. ....

I disagree... You're not taking into account the quality of the beer. Kits can be fairly cheap and it doesn't take a TON of your time to brew while you do other things so I think that offsets the cost of labor.

This discussion is almost like: Is it cheaper to make your own computer of buy one?

 

[rabidgerbil]

Is it cheaper to make your own computer of buy one?

More expensive, because IF you are taking the time, and have the knowledge, to build your own, you are probably not using crap and or out of date components. Your are using newer, sometimes even cutting edge, components, and building a much nicer system than anything that you could go buy off the shelf.
Now, IF I could order a custom system that had everything EXACTLY how I wanted it, it would be cheaper for me to build compared to buying the custom built system, because I don't charge myself labor or markup.

Trust me, I know. I have never owned a prebuilt system. I have built every computer that I ever owned, except my laptop.

So the comparison is yes, you might be able to buy some BMC or even worse (PBR?) beer for as cheap or cheaper than you can brew for yourself, but as many have said, if you are taking the time to make it yourself, you are probably making far better beer. Now make the comparison with a commercial beer comparable to what you are making, and you should be coming out ahead. That is, if we don't get back into the labor argument.

 

[gyrfalcon]

More expensive, IF you are taking the time, and have the knowledge, to build your own, you are not using crap and or out of date components....

So it's less expensive IF you're not taking the time, don't have the knowledge, and using crap out of date components???

Making beer is like making computers... Some of us can do it cheaper, and better than others including professionals who make a living doing so.

Others can't, but enjoy trying anyway.

 

[Bobby_M]

I disagree... You're not taking into account the quality of the beer. Kits can be fairly cheap and it doesn't take a TON of your time to brew while you do other things so I think that offsets the cost of labor.

This discussion is almost like: Is it cheaper to make your own computer of buy one?

We'll agree to disagree. You'd have to disregard a lot of costs in order to come out cheaper. Notice I said "equivilent". I wasn't suggesting the only way to make it cheaper is to put Natural Ice against homebrew. Even buying moderately priced, good craft brew is cheaper. Read through the whole thread, note the points made and then come up with a full list of homebrewing costs and don't leave anything out. If you're homebrew is still cheaper and tastes as good or better than what you can buy, why are you not opening your own brewery?

 

[rabidgerbil]

So it's less expensive IF you're not taking the time, don't have the knowledge, and using crap out of date components???

Making beer is like making computers... Some of us can do it cheaper, and better than others including professionals who make a living doing so.

Others can't, but enjoy trying anyway.

I edited my original post to make my point clearer.

 

[feedthebear]

I brew for about the same cost as I can buy a Microbrew. Of course that doesn't include equipment costs.

 

[Ó Flannagáin]

EDIT: Forgot my mill, kegs and caps, adding them now.
EDIT 3: Just fine tuned all my numbers with a calculator. The math should be correct now. On a side note, I included kegging system and I do feel that it was an uneccessary upgrade. I still am saving money brewing even with the kegging system investment, but I would've paid to have a kegging system in my house whether I brewed or not, if it was possible to have 4 different beers on tap at an affordable price without homebrewing.

OK, excluding labor costs here is my compiled list including shipping costs:

First Starter Kit $100 - siphon, fermenter, bottling bucket, wing capper, caps, spoon, hydrometer, bottle brush, iodophor, tubing
Turkey Fryer $65
Mash Tun (cooler 30, copper tubing 14, spigot 7) $51
IC $70
Keggle $80
Fermenters 4x$20 (on average) = $80
Tubing Aerator Attachment $5
Better Bottle + cork, blow off tube $35
Bottles = Free
Caps = $15
Mill = $60

Kegging Setup = Less than $400 for 4kegs, used full-size CL fridge, hoses, picnic taps.

$961 for equipment (double check my math, did it in my head real quick)

...

Grains I've bought this year (brewing since January):
55lb Wheat (picked up)= $40
55lb Pils (picked up)= $40
50lb US 2-row (picked up) = $40
55lb Marris Otter = $48
55lb Pils (picked up) = $58
55lb Munich (picked up) = $58

Misc Specialties and learning recipe orders at the beginning of the year = $400.

Total $684

........

Hops
A rough (probably over) estimate? $200

.........

Yeast
9 vials of White Labs = $70
3 smack packs = $24
3 dry yeasts = $8

total $102

....

6 cylinders of gas = $15 (avg) each + two deposits of $30. = $150 (My first few all grains I did on the stove)
Iodophor - Around $25
One Step - Around $20

Water? Free thanks to the US Army. Anyone got an estimate what it should've cost me?
Energy? I ferment at room temp of my household.. around 65F .. so free.

Total money spent this year? I actually starter in January, so this is the end of my first year exactly.

$2142

How much on items I won't have to buy again?

Equipment & Tanks: $1156

I haven't opened the 2nd bag of pils (58), marris otter (48) or munich (58), I still have half the wheat left (20) and I still have a TON of misc grains (underestimate: 100)

Grain left for next year? $284

I have about 8lbs of hops left for pre-shortage prices: $96

Total minus leftovers and equipment = $606

I have a ton of washed yeast too, which I just learned to do. I didn't wash yeast for the first 8 months of brewing. I did use yeast cakes over though. I suspect I will only spend around 50 or 60 on yeast next year. I also have about 30 gallons of beer going into 2008 as well, so I can subtract some from that. I'm gonna underestimate here, so I will say that the yeast I have and the beer I have will knock off $120 from next years tally.

New Yearly Total Average: $486 ..

So that leaves me with about $1600 of initial investment. I would normally spend, and again, I'm underestimating .. between $120 and $200 bucks a month on beer, so I will average it low at $150. That's $1800 in a year for commercial beer. So, I by Feb or March of Next year I will have "broke even" and have started saving over 1200 in a year on average.

... I'm saving a ****load.




EDIT 2: My numbers are slightly messed up, but pretty close. You can see an reasonable estimate. i did all the math in my head, so a couple things are off a few bucks. I might go through with a calculator tommorow.

 

[Buchsenr]

You know something else? I have fun. I have others stop by to help (get free beer) or learn (get free beer). Also, I don't need a ride home after I'm done!

 

[Bobby_M]

No one said it wasn't fun, worth it, or wonderful. It is all that and a bag of chips.

 

[5 Is Not Enough]

And if you really want to be honest about your brewing costs (many couldn't care less including me), then you really do need to count the upfront equipment cost at some ammortized rate per batch.

(Not my costs, hypothetical prices pulled from the internet) An interesting point though, about the amortization thing...

I wonder if anybody has actually broken the threshold for "Have I brewed enough beer to save enough money to pay for my equipment?" I'm just talking the dollar, no time involved(as that is QUITE obviously another argument).

Truthfully, I think I'd have to brew for many years to offset the equipment costs(IF I could stop buying!), but for me I just feel better that I don't always hafta run over the distributor for $30 / case.

 

[Bobby_M]

I guess I'll sum up all of my posts on this thread. There are a LOT, many, mucho reasons to homebrew; fun hobby, ultimate control, education, social activity, etc but they're all more valid than "to save money on beer". In other words, it's probably the worst reason to brew. I think we can move on now (long overdue right?). Have a homebrew and call it priceless.

 

[McCall St. Brewer]

You have to ask yourself:

1. Would I be buying and drinking a lot of beer even if I didn't brew it myself?

2. Will the beer that I brew at home replace some of the commercial beer I would otherwise have bought?

3. If I didn't do homebrewing would I have another hobby instead that I would be spending money on?

If the answer to all three questions is yes, then yes, you will save a little money. Not a lot, but the great thing is you will be drinking some of the best beer you have ever had in your life.

 

[grasshopper1917]

Well I may as well throw my 2 cents in. I live in canada and I brew the canned kits. I calculated out the costs - after sanitizer - caps - spring water - malt - priming sugar and the canned kit itself it is about 30$ for 55 bottles.

In Canada for a 24 box of regular commercial beer its 37$ - microbrew your looking at about 43-48$

So I save a whole lot of money - but really if you dont enjoy it - its probley not worth it. Personally I have fun making beer and I like the outcome and I love that I can make it at half the price I would pay to purchase it commercially.

 

[Ó Flannagáin]

You have to ask yourself:

1. Would I be buying and drinking a lot of beer even if I didn't brew it myself?

2. Will the beer that I brew at home replace some of the commercial beer I would otherwise have bought?

3. If I didn't do homebrewing would I have another hobby instead that I would be spending money on?

If the answer to all three questions is yes, then yes, you will save a little money. Not a lot, but the great thing is you will be drinking some of the best beer you have ever had in your life.

My calculations above are not wrong. They prove that I am saving a ton of money, do they not? I can see how some people spend more on the hobby than I and they also drink commercial beer still. I hardly ever buy commercial beer. Maybe one or two bottles a month to try.