Do you decant your starter before you add more wort to it? (for hi-gravity beer)

[rockout]

Hi all, I'm brewing an IPA recipe with White Labs California Ale yeast (WLP001) and because the OG is supposed to be above 1.080 I'd like to take my starter and add more wort before I brew 4 days from now. Okay, mostly I'm doing it because my brew day is 4 days from now and it can't hurt to have more yeast.

My question is simply, do you get rid of the fermented wort on top of the yeast cake before you add more (sanitized) wort? And if so, do you refrigerate the starter for a day or so first? I just did this with a lager yeast but I wasn't sure if it was called for with an ale yeast.

Thanks!

 

[ajf]

If I start with a fresh vial of yeast, and I don't need more less 2 liters of starter, I don't step up the starter at all. I just make a starter of the required size, and pitch the yeast into it.
I never feel the need for more than a 2 liter starter.
If I'm starting with very old yeast, or a very small sample, I make a small starter (about 250 ml), and wait till that has started before topping up the starter to the required size. I don't decant when doing this.
With a starter > 1 liter, I let it ferment out, chill, and decant most of the liquid before pitching just the slurry, but for 1 liter or less, I pitch the whole starter, preferably at high krausen, although I very seldom see any noticeable krausen on my starters.
I make my starters on a stir plate, and find that I need to start (or step up ) the starter 18 - 24 hours before pitching in the summer, but it takes longer during the winter cos I'm too cheap to heat the whole house just to keep the starter happy.

-a.

 

[duskb]

Hi all, I'm brewing an IPA recipe with White Labs California Ale yeast (WLP001) and because the OG is supposed to be above 1.080 I'd like to take my starter and add more wort before I brew 4 days from now. Okay, mostly I'm doing it because my brew day is 4 days from now and it can't hurt to have more yeast.

My question is simply, do you get rid of the fermented wort on top of the yeast cake before you add more (sanitized) wort? And if so, do you refrigerate the starter for a day or so first? I just did this with a lager yeast but I wasn't sure if it was called for with an ale yeast.

Thanks!

I don't and never have decanted my starters. I do sample before pitching though to make sure there are no off flavors.

Shake vigorously before pitching and dump. I figure more ounces = more beer!

 

[Frodo]

My question is simply, do you get rid of the fermented wort on top of the yeast cake before you add more (sanitized) wort? And if so, do you refrigerate the starter for a day or so first?

Why WOULDN'T you? If you have the time to decant it off, you'd just be getting rid of nasty beer-like liquid that isn't going to provide anything (such as nutrients or O2) for the yeast during fermentation of the starter wort. And yes refrigerate if necessary to get the yeast to floc out so you can decant.

 

[Frodo]

I do sample before pitching though to make sure there are no off flavors.

Shake vigorously before pitching and dump. I figure more ounces = more beer!

How could the starter not have off flavors??? It's oxidized, non-hopped nastiness... get rid of it if you can. Or drink it if you just want a buzz.

 

[bja]

How could the starter not have off flavors??? It's oxidized, non-hopped nastiness... get rid of it if you can. Or drink it if you just want a buzz.

I agree, I can't even bring myself to taste the stuff.

 

[BigB]

I always pitch my starters at high krausen. But I wouldn't use that method for such a high gravity beer that requires such a large starter. For that large of a starter, refrigerate, decant, pitch.

 

[rockout]

Hey thanks guys. My question wasn't really about decanting before pitching - I do plan to refrigerate and decant for that.

I was asking, if I'm stepping up the starter, do you also refrigerate and decant the starter after the first fermentation, before you toss in more DME?

 

[bja]

Hey thanks guys. My question wasn't really about decanting before pitching - I do plan to refrigerate and decant for that.

I was asking, if I'm stepping up the starter, do you also refrigerate and decant the starter after the first fermentation, before you toss in more DME?

If I have time, yes.

 

[JayInJersey]

Hijacking the thread with a related question:

How long can you keep a starter if you continue to "step-it up every week and keep it on the stirplate when not chilling?

Weeks? Months?


I started my starter last week (and stepped it up this weekend) but I won't be able to brew with it till mid June...
Should I just get a new smackpak?

 

[defenestrate]

Hey thanks guys. My question wasn't really about decanting before pitching - I do plan to refrigerate and decant for that.

I was asking, if I'm stepping up the starter, do you also refrigerate and decant the starter after the first fermentation, before you toss in more DME?

i would, and do. think of the "new" starter as a new batch of beer, there is no reason to dump the spent starter in to it. then repeat the process into the actual batch of beer. its not going to hurt anything but i dont see the point of hanging on to the original fermented starter wort.

Hijacking the thread with a related question:

How long can you keep a starter if you continue to "step-it up every week and keep it on the stirplate when not chilling?

Weeks? Months?


I started my starter last week (and stepped it up this weekend) but I won't be able to brew with it till mid June...
Should I just get a new smackpak?

put it in the fridge if you want to hang on to it. then when you are ready to brew, decant and make a fresh starter. i keep washed yeast in the fridge for months.

 

[duskb]

How could the starter not have off flavors??? It's oxidized, non-hopped nastiness... get rid of it if you can. Or drink it if you just want a buzz.

Try it enough and you get a feel for it I guess. I had a few batches go bad a ways back and I narrowed it down to funky starters from off yeast. Ever since I have sampled a bit of the "non-hopped nastiness" to gauge whether or not the yeast is carrying something bad with it. I'm not saying it tastes great but it's not like dog crap either.

Think of it like this...you're about to dump this liquid concoction into a fresh batch of wort...why the hell wouldn't you make sure it was up to snuff?

My $.02

 

[bovineblitz]

Try it enough and you get a feel for it I guess. I had a few batches go bad a ways back and I narrowed it down to funky starters from off yeast. Ever since I have sampled a bit of the "non-hopped nastiness" to gauge whether or not the yeast is carrying something bad with it. I'm not saying it tastes great but it's not like dog crap either.

Think of it like this...you're about to dump this liquid concoction into a fresh batch of wort...why the hell wouldn't you make sure it was up to snuff?

My $.02

I just did this for the first time and it tasted kind of weird... not sour or anything... just... weird.

I concluded it wasn't infected, just super oxidized and thin, so decanted and pitched.

*crosses fingers*

What should I look for in a bad starter?

 

[duskb]

I just did this for the first time and it tasted kind of weird... not sour or anything... just... weird.

I concluded it wasn't infected, just super oxidized and thin, so decanted and pitched.

*crosses fingers*

What should I look for in a bad starter?

Well apparently I'm the only one here who'll admit to doing this and I'm not the greatest when it comes to describing flavors. The completed starters I sample typically display a fruity smell upon opening and taste yeasty and bittersweet with a malty edge. I would not describe super oxidized in anything I've tasted but I'd expect a little oxidation. It's not the sort of thing you'd want to drink but I do it to search for particular off-flavors that wild yeast may've brought with it.

Case in point, a recent starter I made used half the DME I normally use and twice the yeast and it took days to get anything happening and the final flavor was really odd (very yeasty, slightly sour and not as sweet). I was almost ready to dump it but I figured what the heck, let's learn from it. It was close enough. I pitched it and the beer took off like wild fire but I have yet to sample the beer to see if it's turned out without any off flavors. I should do that and report back.

I guess my original point was if you are going to all the effort to make a beer why wouldn't one take the time to sample it at each step to learn how the flavors combine and mature. At least being aware of what you are pitching can't hurt you and it very likely could save the beer.

YMMV,