Do American's have an imature beer taste palate?

[F250]

I found out some months ago by some of the members of the Cooper's forums that finally made the trip up here. They wanted to find out for themselves what in the world I was talking about. Mostly why I added so much flavor/aroma hops to an IPA! They found out from other foreigners that we are now concidered the beer capitol of the world,so far as our craft beers are concerned. They told me as much on the Cooper's forums. Now they even styarted messing around with my APA's. Kinda gratifying that I was able to help in some small way,turn them on to what we do with beer.
Not like I'm gloting...just sayin...

Where were these guys from?

Rick

 

[mikeh80]

Wow, you couldn't be more off base. Many of the highly sought after American craft beers ARE imperial strength ales, but there are so many great session ales from craft breweries around the States. Founders, as an example, is a great craft brewery located in my hometown, and they currently have 8 beers under 5.5%. 6 of those are under 5%!

http://foundersbrewing.com/whats-on-tap/?av-submitted=true

I didn't even mention Jolly Pumpkin! They brew awesome sours, many of which are under 5%. Also highly sought after and well reviewed.

http://www.stonebrewing.com/levitation/

Another great one. (And from someone whom you wouldn't expect to make a session beer. lol)

 

[gbx]

Please. Do a little research before spouting such nonsense.

There is a LOT of middle ground beer in American Craft.

Maybe you could offer a suggestion as to what would constitute a "middle ground" beer for you?

The bjcp appears to agree- adding the "American" prefix to extreme hopped, higher strength versions of european styles (pale ale, ipa, brown ale, stout). But maybe I'm wrong about america as my only experience with american craft beer is the resiny bong water ipa's of washington and oregon.

 

[F250]

The bjcp appears to agree- adding the "American" prefix to extreme hopped, higher strength versions of european styles (pale ale, ipa, brown ale, stout). But maybe I'm wrong about america as my only experience with american craft beer is the resiny bong water ipa's of washington and oregon.

Yeah, cause that's certainly the whole country and the entire breadth of what's brewed here.

Rick

 

[rexbanner]

I like big beers. America certainly doesn't have a monopoly on big beers. All the Belgian Trappist styles start at around 7% and just keep going up. I'm drinking a 10% quad I made right now. There's nothing wrong with liking/making big beers.

A lot of people like smaller beers because they can drink many of them and not get drunk. For the opposite reason, I like bigger beers. I like to feel the effects of alcohol when I drink. I've spent years brewing and drinking 7% and up beers which has caused my alcohol tolerance to spike. I won't feel anything drinking a 4% beer, at least at a reasonable pace. If I drink one 10% beer, I get a nice little warm feeling, but it also goes away quickly so my head clears and I can drive.

I think a lot of reasons people don't like big American beers is that they are poorly made. Beer ratings sites are populated by beer nerds who in reality don't have a very highly developed sense of taste and will generally prefer burlier beers, regardless of how well they are made. This leads to breweries cranking out big beers. Also, breweries want to try new things. A new bourbon barrel aged RIS is more exciting than a new American wheat to a lot of people.

The problem is, bigger beers are harder to make. I don't just like bigger beers, though. I also brew a lot of smaller ones (I make a kickass mild). The facts are, bigger ales are just harder to make than smaller ales. I've brewed just about every style of ale out there, and the hardest styles to formulate recipes for and brew successfully are bigger ales that use a lot of specialty malts. I have no idea about lagers since I have never brewed them. With ales, though, you might need to age them a few months to find out how the flavors meld. Commercial breweries can't really age for too long, and if they can, it's still hard to tweak a beer that takes six months in a barrel to release. It's going to get released, even if it sucks.

The results of all of this is that some American breweries release some bottled big beers that are just God-awful. I'm not going to name any names, but I think we have all tasted some expensive bombers of beer and thought "Wow, the first time the brewer cracked open one of these they must have felt like ****."

 

[bovineblitz]

German Beers, Wheat beers, Bitter beers... heck even grapefruit can take some getting used to.

I am just sayin... I do find that a lot of the hoppy beers can be annoying to drink since I am spoiled by the clean light beers. Perhaps this is why a lot of homebrewers attempt the sweet amber ales so often?

Idk about you, but I see a lot more attempts at huge hoppy beers from homebrewers than sweeter beers.

That includes me for the most part because I just really like hops.

 

[ryno1ryno]

I think this taste chart/scale is pretty useful when picking a style to brew.

http://www.howtobrew.com/images/f111.jpg

There are so many possibilities when it comes to brewing beer, I find it to be an amazing hobby.

As far as the OP, I would say that if you have never been to Europe and tried their beer in country and have experienced their culture and have an understanding of their beer brewing history... if you havent experienced that, then your judgement on European beer is in fact, immature.

 

[two_hearted]

I think its a familiarity thing. By and large, people around here, in the Midwest, like to know exactly what they are going to have. Its comforting to know what to expect on the menu at your local chain restaurant. Its comforting to have a beer that tastes like the beer you've known all of your life.

Its comforting to know that you don't like coconut. Even if you eat 2-3 coconut shrimp before you realize that there is coconut in it and that, in fact, you don't like them anymore.

Craft beer is "dark" and "too heavy", ethnic food is "too spicy" and sushi is "gross raw fish." This is unfamiliar territory. Its a lot easier to just drink a bud (or go wild with a blue moon) with your ultimate smothered Jack Daniels burger at TJ McFunsters.

 

[JordanThomas]

The bjcp appears to agree- adding the "American" prefix to extreme hopped, higher strength versions of european styles (pale ale, ipa, brown ale, stout). But maybe I'm wrong about america as my only experience with american craft beer is the resiny bong water ipa's of washington and oregon.

Wow, you need to read the BJCP style guide again. Most of the styles that are "AMERICAN" in BJCP style and name are only that because of ingredients.

1A
1B
1C
6D
10A
10B
10C

All of these start at about 4-4.5%

English and American IPA (14A and 14B) both go from 5/5.5-7.5%

Again, you are misconstruing the guidelines and getting the wrong impression of American craft brewing.

 

[Homercidal]

The bjcp appears to agree- adding the "American" prefix to extreme hopped, higher strength versions of european styles (pale ale, ipa, brown ale, stout). But maybe I'm wrong about america as my only experience with american craft beer is the resiny bong water ipa's of washington and oregon.

But you assume that all American Craft brewers are making American versions of all types of beers. Besides the obvious American IPA, they also make a range of pales, blondes, stouts, browns, etc... Not all of them are "American" (bigger and badder) versions of the beer.

And there are MANY who are brewing things that aren't even in the BJCP, which is only useful for judging beer in a BJCP competition. The BJCP guidelines aren't a comprehensive set of rules to follow for all beer styles.

Brewers make these things because they love them. Lots of craft beer fans enjoy them. They give a name to the brewery and a kind of reputation. most brewers also make several "regular" beers for the average joe who isn't looking to shock their tastebuds.

 

[gbx]

Wow, you need to read the BJCP style guide again. Most of the styles that are "AMERICAN" in BJCP style and name are only that because of ingredients.

1A
1B
1C
6D
10A
10B
10C

Right! I forgot about the other way the BJCP uses the "American" prefix - to describe watered down (in flavour) versions of european styles (american lagers, american dark lager, american wheat etc)

But you assume that all American Craft brewers are making American versions of all types of beers. Besides the obvious American IPA, they also make a range of pales, blondes, stouts, browns, etc... Not all of them are "American" (bigger and badder) versions of the beer.

And the pales, stouts and browns are hoppy as ****! All brewed hoppier and stronger than an IPA would have been 10 years ago. Unless they decide to call it a "session" beer...but it will still be 5% (the "american" craft beer reinheitsgebot prohibits beer less than 5%...and its only acceptable to sell a beer that doesn't reek of C hops if you add another stupid adjunct)

The BJCP guidelines aren't a comprehensive set of rules to follow for all beer styles.

This is what everyone says whenever there is any criticism of the guidelines but then you look at their ratebeer or beeradvocate reviews and they are criticizing a stout for not being to style because it isn't "roasty" enough. But I wasn't accusing anyone of brewing to style, just pointing out how the BJCP uses the "american" prefix.

 

[JordanThomas]

Right! I forgot about the other way the BJCP uses the "American" prefix - to describe watered down (in flavour) versions of european styles (american lagers, american dark lager, american wheat etc)

It's pretty offensive to read what you have to say, particularly because you have a limited (clearly) experience with American craft beers. I've never been to a Canadian craft brewery, and I've only had beers from a few craft breweries based in Canada, so you won't see me spewing generalizations about Canadian craft beer. I guess that's what separates us.

 

[gbx]

It's pretty offensive to read what you have to say, particularly because you have a limited (clearly) experience with American craft beers. I've never been to a Canadian craft brewery, and I've only had beers from a few craft breweries based in Canada, so you won't see me spewing generalizations about Canadian craft beer. I guess that's what separates us.

sorry to *OFFEND* you but the entire thread is about american's taste sensibilities and your countries love for watered down lagers! Is it offensive that I brought craft brewing into the discussion (with its tendency to brew the polar opposite of coors light)? If you are offended because I use the term "american", I'm sorry and please note that I have much of the same criticisms of the canadian craft brewing scene too - imperial strength, IBU pissing contests and stupid adjunct beers. I'm sure I have **** on cask nights at craft breweries in this forum on some thread ("if you can't get your normal beers pulling clear with a decent head, don't try to put a one-off specialty beer on cask")

 

[JordanThomas]

sorry to *OFFEND* you but the entire thread is about american's taste sensibilities and your countries love for watered down lagers! Is it offensive that I brought craft brewing into the discussion (with its tendency to brew the polar opposite of coors light)? If you are offended because I use the term "american", I'm sorry and please note that I have much of the same criticisms of the canadian craft brewing scene too - imperial strength, IBU pissing contests and stupid adjunct beers. I'm sure I have **** on cask nights at craft breweries in this forum on some thread ("if you can't get your normal beers pulling clear with a decent head, don't try to put a one-off specialty beer on cask")

And again, I'll point out that the "imperial strength, IBU pissing contests and stupid adjunct beers" are only the ones you're looking at. Selection bias. You are taking the highly sought after beers and putting them together and summing them up as "American craft brew styles." It's just not the case. If all you want to see if the extreme stuff, go ahead. But it's a Gaussian function and you're only choosing to see the 32%.

 

[F250]

There's some live ones in this thread and at least two of them have no clue, but forge on anyway.

Rick

 

[unionrdr]

Nah,I think they're just "'avin a piss" as the Brits would say. Nobody wants to loose face,even though there foot is already in there mouth for all to see. Just give it up & move on.
I agree that there is a certain percentage of the population with there heads fermly entrenched in BCB's as my son & I call them (Big Corporate Brews). But there's a significant amount of them that try craft brews & some of those that move on to craft beer & home brewing. There will always be a couple sides to this argument. So I say Rejoice in the fact that we have so many choices in the USA nowadays & leave it at that. There is no one right answer. By it's very nature,the argument can't allow for it.

 

[gbx]

And again, I'll point out that the "imperial strength, IBU pissing contests and stupid adjunct beers" are only the ones you're looking at. Selection bias. You are taking the highly sought after beers and putting them together and summing them up as "American craft brew styles." It's just not the case. If all you want to see if the extreme stuff, go ahead. But it's a Gaussian function and you're only choosing to see the 32%.

maybe thats true as those are the only beers that get exported to canada or are talked up so when I go to seattle or portland I seek them out. ...maybe my problem is that canadian craft brewers here have only had those beers too and our scene is just a copy of the extreme sides of american craft brewing.

 

[F250]

Nah,I think they're just "'avin a piss" as the Brits would say. Nobody wants to loose face,even though there foot is already in there mouth for all to see. Just give it up & move on.
I agree that there is a certain percentage of the population with there heads fermly entrenched in BCB's as my son & I call them (Big Corporate Brews). But there's a significant amount of them that try craft brews & some of those that move on to craft beer & home brewing. There will always be a couple sides to this argument. So I say Rejoice in the fact that we have so many choices in the USA nowadays & leave it at that. There is no one right answer. By it's very nature,the argument can't allow for it.

Agreed. These days I walk into the supermarket, even here in the hinterlands, and half+ of the selection is craft brews or imports. Shoot, we even have our own brew pub now that makes excellent beers, stouts, IPA's pale ales, brown ales, ect.

Rick

 

[45_70sharps]

I'm here to tell you some people never talk to your kids to keep her mouth shut if they don't know what the hell they're talking about.

I would hate to even guess at how many thousands of different American beers are available.
If you don't like the ones that you've had I'm sure there are many thousands more out there with probably hundreds of them that would be to your liking.
If the ones that are big sellers aren't beers that you like maybe the problem is more with your tastes than with the beers available.
There are tons of styles of beer that I would like to try, that are brewed right here in the good old United States, but part of the price of living in a small town is lacking of beer selection.

 

[unionrdr]

Trouble is not all craft beers are available everywhere.

 

[the_trout]

Trouble is not all craft beers are available everywhere.

This really bugs me. Im in upstate ny and we have a really nice beer scene going on but there are tons and tons of beers that are just not distributed here or even anywhere close to here. Id love to try more of the regional breweries of the mid west and north west but outside of the bigger names its just not available to me.

 

[45_70sharps]

Trouble is not all craft beers are available everywhere.

It's the nature of the game. The fact they brew them on smaller scales means they only get to reach a small audience by comparison.
They also tend to cost more so stores only stocks just so much of an unknown to them beer.

I sure do wish I had access to more of them though.
I'm sure the ideas for what I want to brew would change some if I were able to try some of the styles I've never had.

 

[unionrdr]

The biggest game around here is that even with breweries they do sell beer from,they only selct a couple they think will be popular. Rather than letting me decide for myself. Like the only yuingling we get around here is the lager & black-n-tan. Stuff like that annoys me.

 

[ryno1ryno]

Trouble is not all craft beers are available everywhere.

Actually, considering this is a beer brewing community, that very point is irrelevant imo.

We all should have the know how based on this very forum to brew any beer desired. Maybe not the equipment, but the knowledge should be available here or on the web.

But the question is... if you don't know what all of the different beer types taste like, then how would one venture out and choose a different style to brew, or even know what to expect without being open minded enough about the varying styles?

http://www.howtobrew.com/images/f111.jpg

 

[unionrdr]

It's not about me being closed minded. They sell what they think I'll like rather than letting me decide. Descriptions of beers I can't get on line help,but can't replace taste & smell. So it's not a question of relavance,but availability. And if we could brew every beer imaginable,just like the original,what the hell would we need them for? You'd have to duplicate every single mind numbing thing to do with any given beer to truly nail it. THAT sir,is irrelevant.

 

[dadshomebrewing]

Trouble is not all craft beers are available everywhere.

that's absolutely true, but what fun would that be?

the whole point is that there are GOOD craft beers available, but not the SAME craft beers available.

 

[ludomonster]

Yuenling is a very popular beer in my area. You can get it at any bar that serves a BMC. But, you still have to look for the Porter. Don't even dry to find Lord Chesterfield. Yuenling Light is all over the place. Then again, you're not missing much. I should warn you that Yuenling can be a harsh mistress the morning after.

 

[unionrdr]

I've had the 2 available around here. But I'm curious about the other offerings. Mainly used it as an example of what marketing is like around here. Take Sierra Nevada. The pale ale,torpedo,celebration comes in around here. But not at the same time. The barleywine when it's ready. Forget pliny. But we do get a couple of stone offerings. Stuff like that.

 

[F250]

Actually, considering this is a beer brewing community, that very point is irrelevant imo.

We all should have the know how based on this very forum to brew any beer desired. Maybe not the equipment, but the knowledge should be available here or on the web.

But the question is... if you don't know what all of the different beer types taste like, then how would one venture out and choose a different style to brew, or even know what to expect without being open minded enough about the varying styles?

http://www.howtobrew.com/images/f111.jpg

Nope, can't be done, cause us ignat mericans have a immature palate.

Put the shovel down.

Rick

 

[dadshomebrewing]

Actually, considering this is a beer brewing community, that very point is irrelevant imo.

We all should have the know how based on this very forum to brew any beer desired. Maybe not the equipment, but the knowledge should be available here or on the web.

But the question is... if you don't know what all of the different beer types taste like, then how would one venture out and choose a different style to brew, or even know what to expect without being open minded enough about the varying styles?

http://www.howtobrew.com/images/f111.jpg

how about just brew it, and decide if you like it when it comes out of the bottle?