Do American's have an imature beer taste palate?

[Oter]

The big brewers brew nasty beer cause its cheap to make and they are a for profit business.

So is every other brewery.

 

[Clonefan94]

I like trying new things and beer is one of them. That being the case I have drank some nasty crap, but since my Dad taught me never throw away food (probably the reason I am fat) I soldier through it. But most people dont want surprises. They want to drink the same ol swill and not have to worry about it. The big brewers brew nasty beer cause its cheap to make and they are a for profit business.

Well, most breweries are in it for profit, right? The reason BMC is brewed the way it is, is because it has a hugely wide appeal and can be counted on for consistency. Contrary to what most people say, BMC is probably one of the hardest beers to brew. Their profit margins don't lie so much in the cheapness of the production, I guarantee you they could make a beer much cheaper if they wanted to, but in the mass appeal. Why make $.50 per bottle selling a million bottles, when you can make $.25 per bottle selling a billion bottles?

I've never really been one to care what people drink. I know what I like and I usually either make it or buy it. As long as I have my options, I really don't care what BMC does.

 

[Qhrumphf]

I like trying new things and beer is one of them. That being the case I have drank some nasty crap, but since my Dad taught me never throw away food (probably the reason I am fat) I soldier through it. But most people dont want surprises. They want to drink the same ol swill and not have to worry about it. The big brewers brew nasty beer cause its cheap to make and they are a for profit business.

I like me some light macro lager from time to time.

It's no cheaper than half the other styles out there to brew. I could think of other styles that would definitely be cheaper, as well as easier to consistently brew. They brew it cause that's what people want (albeit I'd say it's a chicken-before-the-egg scenario as to whether they want it because that's predominantly what's most available so that's what they know).

The cheap factor comes from scale. It's pretty well-known even on the homebrew scale that the labor increase between a 1 gallon, 5 gallon, and 15 gallon batch is pretty minimal. On the commercial side, that directly factors into labor cost. It's also established on the homebrew level that buying your ingredients in bulk (base malt in 50-55lb sacks as opposed to one pound at a time) presents considerable savings. You scale both of these up to the hundreds of millions of barrels produced annually by these big brewers, and the bulk savings are huge.

 

[jasonsbeer]

What is it about this forum that people fight like kindergarten kids on the playground?

Might as well get my shot in.

Contrary to what most people say, BMC is probably one of the hardest beers to brew.

People regularly defend awful beer by saying it is "hard to make". "Hard to make" is not a defense and does not necessarily equate to quality or good taste. Just my opinion.

 

[45_70sharps]

People regularly defend awful beer by saying it is "hard to make". "Hard to make" is not a defense and does not necessarily equate to quality or good taste. Just my opinion.

You will get no argument from me on that one, and I'm staying out of the arguments that someone else will find in that statement.

Another thread that I'm not coming back to.

 

[brigbrew]

Just throwing my two cents in here, but having a discerning palate that is appreciative of many styles is kind of the point of being a beer aficionado. Plus, there is such a thing as sub par beer. Those two items mean that it is possible and not elitist for an educated palate to state truthfully that someone's tastes are limited if they only drink crap beer, especially if it's because they haven't tried anything else.

I have my favorites, but I buy a new beer or two every time I'm at the liquor store.

Everyone's preferences are valid, but that doesn't make the beer they are drinking any better.

 

[freisste]

Fact vs opinion:


Fact: BMC is not easy to make.
Fact: BMC is cheaper than many beers, especially due to economies of scale.
Fact: there are cheaper beers than BMC.
Opinion: BMC tastes like $h!t.
Fact: people need to stop dictating what others should like or appreciate. We homebrew because we like it and can do whatever we want.

 

[Qhrumphf]

Just throwing my two cents in here, but having a discerning palate that is appreciative of many styles is kind of the point of being a beer aficionado. Plus, there is such a thing as sub par beer. Those two items mean that it is possible and not elitist for an educated palate to state truthfully that someone's tastes are limited if they only drink crap beer, especially if it's because they haven't tried anything else.

I have my favorites, but I buy a new beer or two every time I'm at the liquor store.

Everyone's preferences are valid, but that doesn't make the beer they are drinking any better.

There's definitely sub-par beer. But I take issue with the automatic BMC=sub par distinction. I've run into far more bad beer from craft brewers than I have from the big guys.

When you can pick apart off-flavors, inconsistencies, and points where it's out of style, or if you can brew THAT STYLE better yourself, then you can call it sub-par. Until then, it's a style you just don't like.

 

[fxdude]

Not sure about the general public's palate but we definitely have a much larger variety of beers available to consume here. I rarely ever drink imports, lack of freshness mainly but really so many of them all taste the same for their style. I've spoken to multiple beer lovers from around the globe that have all said how amazing and different the beer is here. They said we experiment a lot more with flavors and don't try and just make session beers sticking to the four main ingredients (obviously the larger breweries do).

 

[fxdude]

This should probably also be moved to the general beer discussion

 

[InLimbo]

People regularly defend awful beer by saying it is "hard to make". "Hard to make" is not a defense and does not necessarily equate to quality or good taste. Just my opinion.

I personally don't drink BMC and probably never will again. But with that said...

Hard to make? Of course not.

But a Budweiser will take like a budweiser anywhere in the WORLD that it is sold (storage, handling, and distribution practices not withstanding). You have absolutely no idea how incredible their quality control practices are, and how difficult it is to make the same beer (regardless of its taste--or lack there of) for decades and decades. Try to make the same beer several times on the homebrew scale. You will notice variances each times, and you're just working with 5 gallon batches. Try it with zillion barrel batches.

 

[gbx]

No. American beer is arguably the best in the world, and we certainly make the best IPAs. Europeans drink plenty of mediocre beer as well (Beck's, Stella Artois, etc.).

I think the american IPA could be considered evidence for rather than against. American craft brewing is all about the most extreme flavour experience and imperial strength versions rather than an enjoyable session beer with subtle complexity. There is no middle ground...just piss water lagers and extreme craft beer

 

[fxdude]

But a Budweiser will take like a budweiser anywhere in the WORLD that it is sold (storage, handling, and distribution practices not withstanding). You have absolutely no idea how incredible their quality control practices are, and how difficult it is to make the same beer (regardless of its taste--or lack there of) for decades and decades. Try to make the same beer several times on the homebrew scale. You will notice variances each times, and you're just working with 5 gallon batches. Try it with zillion barrel batches.

Funny how the more I brewed the more I came to respect something like Bud Light. I understand the evils of their marketing and hogging of shelf space but their consistency is absolutely remarkable for such a low flavored beer. I believe their hop specialist is one one of the better ones in the nation if not the world and consults on all levels even on the craft beer level. Obviously they have the cash to pay for the best but don't ever look down on someone because they're the hop specialist of Budweiser.

 

[ryno1ryno]

I personally don't drink BMC and probably never will again. But with that said...

Hard to make? Of course not.

But a Budweiser will take like a budweiser anywhere in the WORLD that it is sold (storage, handling, and distribution practices not withstanding). You have absolutely no idea how incredible their quality control practices are, and how difficult it is to make the same beer (regardless of its taste--or lack there of) for decades and decades. Try to make the same beer several times on the homebrew scale. You will notice variances each times, and you're just working with 5 gallon batches. Try it with zillion barrel batches.

How many bad batches does Budweiser dump out per year?

That would be an interesting statistic.

 

[Airborneguy]

I think the american IPA could be considered evidence for rather than against. American craft brewing is all about the most extreme flavour experience and imperial strength versions rather than an enjoyable session beer with subtle complexity. There is no middle ground...just piss water lagers and extreme craft beer

There's plenty going on in the middle.

 

[TheBreweryUnderground]

Great! Another BMC love thread...

Does anybody ever get tired of hearing about consistency or how hard it is to brew p*ss water? What's the point of quality control when what you're drinking is sterile perrier? I can enjoy a real pilsner or helles, but pale american lager? If other people want to drink it, fine whatever. If other people support these companies, I disagree with their buying habits and these businesses but they're going to do it anyway. But why do we feel the need to defend BMC so much on this forum? They have expensive lawyers and advertising for that, we don't need to keep telling each other that what they do is hard. If I had a billion dollars to blow on jacketed fermentors and quality control I bet I'd have pretty consistent batches too.

 

[rklinck]

Why the need to refer to BMC as "p*ss water"? Different strokes for different folks. To use food as an analogy, I love spicy food. I will always get the hottest buffalo wings on the menu, but I don't begrudge people who choose to get the mild wings (and I certainly don't claim they have unrefined palates). Some people don't like that much spice and some people don't like that much malty or hop flavor. There is nothing wrong with that, and the major brewers cater to this taste by producing beers that are very light in flavor.

That being said, I think many people choose BMC by default (e.g., because they have not been exposed to good quality craft beer) or because their initial venture into non-BMC beer was not a good one. I am originally from a relatively small town in Texas. I don't remember any craft beer and everything besides BMC sat on the shelf so it would likely have been stale. As a result, through college, I did not drink much of anything but BMC and an occasional Shiner Bock. Then I moved to Boston and was exposed to "ales." Unfortunately, the first ale I tried was an IPA. I can't recall which IPA, but my delicate sensibilities were shocked a bit too much by the bitterness. I did not know much at the time, so I attributed the flavor to ales more generally and it took me a while to venture out after that.

 

[ludomonster]

I think the american IPA could be considered evidence for rather than against. American craft brewing is all about the most extreme flavour experience and imperial strength versions rather than an enjoyable session beer with subtle complexity. There is no middle ground...just piss water lagers and extreme craft beer

I've been trying to find a good dry stout but all I seem to see is Murphy's and Guiness. Everyone else is making American or imperial stouts.

 

[skw]

Who would have a mature beer palate then? Not us Germans, at least the beer that our largest brewery produces (Oettinger) is sold primarily because it's cheap, not because it fits somebody's taste. I have friends who drink Bud because they like the taste, but I haven't met anyone yet who bought Oettinger for that reason.

 

[dadshomebrewing]

what was the point of this thread?

 

[DrunkleJon]

Taste is subjective. When I first started drinking beer I did not exactly love it, but it got the job done. It seemed to have a strong flavor then. After a few sessons I grew accustomed to BL and developed a taste for it. I then enjoyed it for quite a while until I introduced myself to beer with more flavor and realized that I liked them better and then the BMC beers started tasting like water though previously they tasted like sucking on a copper penny to me initially. So what if people enjoy BMC? I still enjoy a Bud/L on occasion especially on a hot summer. I enjoy the lite beers when I am up for drinking quantity, especially on a hot day, or when my wallet is feeling a little light as well.

Drink what you enjoy, Dont judge others for doing the same. Encourage people to experiment if they want to, but do not persecute people for enjoying the yellow fizzy waters.

 

[emjay]

No. Why should anyone do that? If they try something and don't like it why try to "learn" to like it?

You've never heard of something being an acquired taste? Hell, even BMC is somewhat of an acquired taste... many, if not most, people don't even really like BMC beer at first taste. And acquiring tastes can be very rewarding, allowing you to appreciate some great stuff you didn't originally care for, and even actually allow you to better appreciate many things you did.

It's no coincidence that most of what are considered to be "the finer things" are also considered to require some effort. And this doesn't only hold for food and drink; it applies equally to things such as art, music, film, etc. (There are certainly reasons for this, but that is another matter completely, on which entire books and scholarly works been written). So by not putting in the effort to acquire some of these tastes, one risks missing out on many of life's greatest pleasures. It's no surprise that the "easy" stuff to like, like chicken fingers and french fries, are often relegated to kids menus... and one who sticks to similarly "easy" tastes essentially has the palate of a child.

And as homebrewers, we actually have the ability to make acquiring certain tastes more easily than others. I originally did not like stouts. I love realky dark chocolate (another acquired taste), but couldn't stand "roasty" beers, to the point that I couldn't even drink an Irish Red... even Smithwick's was too roasty for me! But I wanted to be able to better appreciate beer in its totality, and beers with roasted grains make up a pretty large proportion of that, so I considered it unacceptable. I chose to tackle this in baby steps... I first made a milk stout with chocolate, using only some chocolate malt and debittered carats for getting closer to the roasted character. It was a pretty easy beer to like, and after getting accustomed to it, I could brew (or even buy) a slightly more roasty beer, and after getting accustomed to THAT, repeating the process. It actually didn't take very long at all 'til I was drinking intense imperial stouts and liking them, and I'm VERY glad I put in the necessary effort, especially now that I can truly appreciate what I would have been missing!

I imagine this is a much longer reply than you were counting on, so to sum it up, I would answer your question with another question: why should an adult forgo the chance to be able to appreciate some of life's greatest pleasures just because they don't happen to instantly love something?

Just throwing my two cents in here, but having a discerning palate that is appreciative of many styles is kind of the point of being a beer aficionado. Plus, there is such a thing as sub par beer. Those two items mean that it is possible and not elitist for an educated palate to state truthfully that someone's tastes are limited if they only drink crap beer, especially if it's because they haven't tried anything else.

And this, I suppose.

 

[Homercidal]

I think the american IPA could be considered evidence for rather than against. American craft brewing is all about the most extreme flavour experience and imperial strength versions rather than an enjoyable session beer with subtle complexity. There is no middle ground...just piss water lagers and extreme craft beer

Please. Do a little research before spouting such nonsense.

There is a LOT of middle ground beer in American Craft.

Maybe you could offer a suggestion as to what would constitute a "middle ground" beer for you?

 

[highgravitybacon]

what was the point of this thread?

To prove that the samurai is better than the cossacks?

 

[F250]

what was the point of this thread?

Who knows? I'm pretty sure the OP doesn't.

Rick

 

[smitty2324]

I think the american IPA could be considered evidence for rather than against. American craft brewing is all about the most extreme flavour experience and imperial strength versions rather than an enjoyable session beer with subtle complexity. There is no middle ground...just piss water lagers and extreme craft beer

I so agree with this. I'm very excited about the emergence of the craft beer industry, but I also tend to gravitate toward session beers. Even going to a top tier beer bar, anything under 6% alcohol is going to be a wheat beer or a BMC. I think there is a huge market for well made, less extreme beers still unexplored in the US. I honestly get upset when I go out and get a unique high alc brew and they hand me a full pint. (I know....good problem to have, until you can barely stand up and you had 3 beers.)

Since the market isn't really there, I tend to brew a lot of English Pales and IPAs, light rye pales, and farm house ales.

 

[JordanThomas]

I think the american IPA could be considered evidence for rather than against. American craft brewing is all about the most extreme flavour experience and imperial strength versions rather than an enjoyable session beer with subtle complexity. There is no middle ground...just piss water lagers and extreme craft beer

Wow, you couldn't be more off base. Many of the highly sought after American craft beers ARE imperial strength ales, but there are so many great session ales from craft breweries around the States. Founders, as an example, is a great craft brewery located in my hometown, and they currently have 8 beers under 5.5%. 6 of those are under 5%!

http://foundersbrewing.com/whats-on-tap/?av-submitted=true

I didn't even mention Jolly Pumpkin! They brew awesome sours, many of which are under 5%. Also highly sought after and well reviewed.

 

[rustym]

The whole premise of the question is wrong. It already assumes that European beer is superior to American beer. We have some of the best beers in the world here in the US. And I would say, a lot bigger selection of beers with unique profiles.

 

[unionrdr]

I found out some months ago by some of the members of the Cooper's forums that finally made the trip up here. They wanted to find out for themselves what in the world I was talking about. Mostly why I added so much flavor/aroma hops to an IPA! They found out from other foreigners that we are now concidered the beer capitol of the world,so far as our craft beers are concerned. They told me as much on the Cooper's forums. Now they even styarted messing around with my APA's. Kinda gratifying that I was able to help in some small way,turn them on to what we do with beer.
Not like I'm gloting...just sayin...

 

[Airborneguy]

Unionrdr, thank you for going back to a larger font! I haven't been able to read your posts for months (and really wanted to)!!