Do ales "lager"?

[brent1395]

I've noticed that when I put a keg in my keezer to chill, the taste continues to change quite a bit.

I know part of this is a result of the inherent cold crashing that happens when the keg gets cold, part of this is a result of the carbonation process, but is the yeast still doing work as well?

I know with lagers the yeast continues to work and clean up even after being chilled, but does ale yeast have a biological process that continues to happen even when it is chilled?

 

[brew_ny]

Do ales "lager"?

or cold condition ?

S_M

 

[Yooper]

No, cold conditioning isn't a yeast process. Well, neither is lagering really, either.

Lots of things happen during cold conditioning. Polyphenols will drop out, reducing tannin flavor and harsh bitterness from the hops. The yeast will drop out more completely with cold temperatures, leaving a clearer beer.

 

[Sir-Hops-A-Lot]

This is a good question. I'm posting to subscribe.

 

[AnOldUR]

How to Brew - John Palmer:

Towards the end of secondary fermentation, the suspended yeast flocculates (settles out) and the beer clears. High molecular weight proteins also settle out during this stage. Tannin/phenol compounds will bind with the proteins and also settle out, greatly smoothing the taste of the beer. This process can be helped by chilling the beer, very similar to the lagering process. In the case of ales, this process is referred to as Cold Conditioning, and is a popular practice at most brewpubs and microbreweries.

 

[kcmobrewer]

Since kegging I always leave my beer cold and on gas for at least a week before drinking. It has greatly improved my beers.


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[brent1395]

Ok, interesting.

So a related question: Would there be much of a noticeable difference in leaving a beer in primary for 4 weeks then keezer for 2 weeks, versus primary 2 weeks and keezer 4 weeks?

I know it depends on the recipe/yeast and a bunch of other factors of course, I guess I am just trying to figure out the most optimal way to get my beer to taste as good as possible as fast as possible.

Right now for my non-IPAs, I typically primary for 2 to 4 weeks, then keg/keezer. For IPAs, I primary 2 or 3 weeks, then I move them into a keg where I dry hop and force-carb at room temperature for 5 to 10 days before moving them into the keezer. It's starting to seem like my beers don't hit their prime until a month in the keezer no matter what I do.

 

[SeeMont]

I like this discussion.

 

[giraffe]

It depends. If the yeast needs to finish cleaning up a beer, this wont happen with an ale yeast at lager temps. A high gravity beer this can be 4-6 weeks at times.

3 weeks of cold conditioning in the keg near freezing, pretty much improves all styles of beer. More for lagers, and high gravity. It makes the beer drop bright, and harsh flavors drop out, as stated above.

As for beers that need a long time to age, such as old ales, quads, and ris, I dont know if warm aging versus cold aging has much difference. I never got a straight answer. I usually keg them 2-3 months before serving, and let them cold condition before serving. The previous 9 months or whatever, I put in a secondary at celler temps, this is mainly due to only being able to fit 12 kegs in my cold conditioners, there isnt space.

 

[j1n]

Ok, interesting.

So a related question: Would there be much of a noticeable difference in leaving a beer in primary for 4 weeks then keezer for 2 weeks, versus primary 2 weeks and keezer 4 weeks?

I know it depends on the recipe/yeast and a bunch of other factors of course, I guess I am just trying to figure out the most optimal way to get my beer to taste as good as possible as fast as possible.

Right now for my non-IPAs, I typically primary for 2 to 4 weeks, then keg/keezer. For IPAs, I primary 2 or 3 weeks, then I move them into a keg where I dry hop and force-carb at room temperature for 5 to 10 days before moving them into the keezer. It's starting to seem like my beers don't hit their prime until a month in the keezer no matter what I do.

Do you notice a difference from doing 2 weeks vs 4 weeks in the primary?

You said you DO notice a difference with a month cold conditioning.

I would do 2 weeks primary then 4 weeks cold conditioning based off what you said.

Me personally, i never go past 2 weeks in the primary since i find there really is no need to.

 

[brew_ny]

Me personally, i never go past 2 weeks in the primary since i find there really is no need to.

14 days for an ale and it is done

cold condition in the keg a couple of weeks and life is good

S_M

 

[brent1395]

Do you notice a difference from doing 2 weeks vs 4 weeks in the primary?

You said you DO notice a difference with a month cold conditioning.

I would do 2 weeks primary then 4 weeks cold conditioning based off what you said.

Me personally, i never go past 2 weeks in the primary since i find there really is no need to.

I guess it's hard to say. It's easy to tell with cold conditioning because I am drinking cold, carbonated samples daily off the keg, so it easy to notice changes. Noticing changes from longer primaries is tougher because I don't take daily samples; and the flat, warm hydrometer samples all taste so much different than what the final product tastes like for me.

I'll probably start experimenting with doing shorter primaries to see what that does for me.

 

[Yooper]

Ok, interesting.

So a related question: Would there be much of a noticeable difference in leaving a beer in primary for 4 weeks then keezer for 2 weeks, versus primary 2 weeks and keezer 4 weeks?

I know it depends on the recipe/yeast and a bunch of other factors of course, I guess I am just trying to figure out the most optimal way to get my beer to taste as good as possible as fast as possible.

Right now for my non-IPAs, I typically primary for 2 to 4 weeks, then keg/keezer. For IPAs, I primary 2 or 3 weeks, then I move them into a keg where I dry hop and force-carb at room temperature for 5 to 10 days before moving them into the keezer. It's starting to seem like my beers don't hit their prime until a month in the keezer no matter what I do.

Well, I don't primary for 4 weeks, as I don't like the character of the flavor imparted by such a long contact time with the yeast, so I do notice a difference between 2 weeks in the fermenter and 4 weeks in the fermenter.

The difference between those two scenarios is quite remarkable to me.

If you prefer the 4 week primary beer, then you should do that.

Cold conditioning is different than warm conditioning on the yeast cake.

 

[dobes]

Wow ton of interesting info here. Never really thought about the time from brew day til day served. One thing I can say though is since I started not rushing beers and trying to get them ready not only me but many others also have noticed a difference. One of the comments I get is your beers are really smooth. When I ask what they mean I am told its a good balanced beer.
Now im not sure this can be attributed to time as I really never looked into it to much, just thought I was getting better at brewing.

 

[kcmobrewer]

Probably both


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