Hey guys.
Ive had a problem with DMS over the last 2 brews I have done, both with the same recipe and similar fermentation routine and was wondering whether someone can pinpoint where I have gone wrong.
Roughly I used the recipe from JZ Brewing classic Styles for American pale Ale but I had to adapt it both times. My goal was not to brew JZ's pale ale, but to create something that was unique to me as a house style.
Because I cant get LME I had to use DME instead for the Light ME and Wheat ME and cos I cant get Munich I used Munich Grain and partial mashed it with the Victory rather than steeping.
First time I did it I had a faulty thermometer and mashed too high and ended up with a ton of astringency and grain flavor. Second time with a perfect thermometer and mashed @ 152F and it tasted pretty good once it hit the kettle. In both cases the DME was added to the PM and then brought to the boil for 60+ mins.
The boil in both cases was a little over 60mins, uncovered and very very vigorous, to a point where in both cases I almost set fire to the counter-top that the stove hob is mounted on it was so hot.
I chilled it with an ice bath and immersion chiller and got it down to ferment temps within 15 mins of flameout.
Fermentation was with 001 in a VERY controlled environment (wine fridge with temp controller set for .3deg variation @19deg C) except the 001 in batch 1 was a fresh vial in a starter and then in batch 2 it was a 2nd generation "harvested and washed x 3" version of Batch 1.
I fermented out, but the yeast in both cases only attenuated to 65% despite a starter that was 1040 and showed very good signs of active fermentation so in the end I didnt hit my final FG's. I attributed this to the higher PM temps in the bigger grain bill and therefore fewer fermentable sugars (but I was going for a brew with a bigger body anyway)
OG was 1062 in both cases and it came down to B1=1024 and B2=1020
Fermentation was active and took 2 weeks in both cases to stabilize with most of the work done in the first 4 days.
When I tasted both straight out of the fermenter, batch 1 was in a bad way cos of the tannins and astringency making it taste like grain husk, but I decided to bottle it and see how it went. Batch2 out of the fermenter tasted FANTASTIC and I was really pleased with the way it was profiled malt wise (I changed it slightly w a different hop schedule leaning towards IPA dry hop) but the malt profile tasted great w no perceptable DMS notes and couldnt wait to get it primed.
Primed and into the bottle and in both cases, 3 days later.... creamed corn, and in the case of batch1 the older it got in the bottle the worse it got. Batch 2 is 4 days old and..... PUKE! Going to be another drain pour.
So, my questions are:
1: Is DME more susceptible to DMS formation than LME?
2: Is Munich a grain that has a lot of the DMS precursor in it (I cant remember what its called)
3: Is Victory?
4: Any chance the 001 yeast in Gen1 harvested to Gen2 has caused this because it carried over from the first batch?
5: Why does it get worse once in the bottle?
6: DMS is alleviated by a vigorous boil I know but with 60mins flat out and an open boil kettle I would have thought would have been enough...... Are there any other factors that can cause DMS that Im missing here?
7: Can stale grain cause this (my LHBS is in Singapore and I am questioning what they have sold me cos when I munched the grin it wasnt what I was expecting)
8: Singapore is notoriously hot, but I have had the brew sitting for 3 days @ 25 degrees C after priming to get it carbonated faster and then I put some in the fridge and yep.... DMS. Other batches I have done at colder temps (fridge never seemed to carbonate so well, for obvious reasons so stayed away from the fridge for a couple of days to begin with) but, once in the bottle can DMS get worse because of temp over such a short period of time.
9: any chance the inclusion of the hot break and cold break into the fermenter can cause it? (I didnt skim or rack from the boil kettle, I just dropped it all into the fermenter once at ferment temp)
This issue is driving me crazy cos I only have room for one batch at a time in the fermenting fridge and Im really tired of brewing K+K beers and drinking wine. (done a lot of K+K's)
Im in a small condo so at the moment Im limited to the stovetop and a burner is out of the question.
Any help would be very much appreciated from the gurus of malt and boil
A.
Ive had a problem with DMS over the last 2 brews I have done, both with the same recipe and similar fermentation routine and was wondering whether someone can pinpoint where I have gone wrong.
Roughly I used the recipe from JZ Brewing classic Styles for American pale Ale but I had to adapt it both times. My goal was not to brew JZ's pale ale, but to create something that was unique to me as a house style.
Because I cant get LME I had to use DME instead for the Light ME and Wheat ME and cos I cant get Munich I used Munich Grain and partial mashed it with the Victory rather than steeping.
First time I did it I had a faulty thermometer and mashed too high and ended up with a ton of astringency and grain flavor. Second time with a perfect thermometer and mashed @ 152F and it tasted pretty good once it hit the kettle. In both cases the DME was added to the PM and then brought to the boil for 60+ mins.
The boil in both cases was a little over 60mins, uncovered and very very vigorous, to a point where in both cases I almost set fire to the counter-top that the stove hob is mounted on it was so hot.
I chilled it with an ice bath and immersion chiller and got it down to ferment temps within 15 mins of flameout.
Fermentation was with 001 in a VERY controlled environment (wine fridge with temp controller set for .3deg variation @19deg C) except the 001 in batch 1 was a fresh vial in a starter and then in batch 2 it was a 2nd generation "harvested and washed x 3" version of Batch 1.
I fermented out, but the yeast in both cases only attenuated to 65% despite a starter that was 1040 and showed very good signs of active fermentation so in the end I didnt hit my final FG's. I attributed this to the higher PM temps in the bigger grain bill and therefore fewer fermentable sugars (but I was going for a brew with a bigger body anyway)
OG was 1062 in both cases and it came down to B1=1024 and B2=1020
Fermentation was active and took 2 weeks in both cases to stabilize with most of the work done in the first 4 days.
When I tasted both straight out of the fermenter, batch 1 was in a bad way cos of the tannins and astringency making it taste like grain husk, but I decided to bottle it and see how it went. Batch2 out of the fermenter tasted FANTASTIC and I was really pleased with the way it was profiled malt wise (I changed it slightly w a different hop schedule leaning towards IPA dry hop) but the malt profile tasted great w no perceptable DMS notes and couldnt wait to get it primed.
Primed and into the bottle and in both cases, 3 days later.... creamed corn, and in the case of batch1 the older it got in the bottle the worse it got. Batch 2 is 4 days old and..... PUKE! Going to be another drain pour.
So, my questions are:
1: Is DME more susceptible to DMS formation than LME?
2: Is Munich a grain that has a lot of the DMS precursor in it (I cant remember what its called)
3: Is Victory?
4: Any chance the 001 yeast in Gen1 harvested to Gen2 has caused this because it carried over from the first batch?
5: Why does it get worse once in the bottle?
6: DMS is alleviated by a vigorous boil I know but with 60mins flat out and an open boil kettle I would have thought would have been enough...... Are there any other factors that can cause DMS that Im missing here?
7: Can stale grain cause this (my LHBS is in Singapore and I am questioning what they have sold me cos when I munched the grin it wasnt what I was expecting)
8: Singapore is notoriously hot, but I have had the brew sitting for 3 days @ 25 degrees C after priming to get it carbonated faster and then I put some in the fridge and yep.... DMS. Other batches I have done at colder temps (fridge never seemed to carbonate so well, for obvious reasons so stayed away from the fridge for a couple of days to begin with) but, once in the bottle can DMS get worse because of temp over such a short period of time.
9: any chance the inclusion of the hot break and cold break into the fermenter can cause it? (I didnt skim or rack from the boil kettle, I just dropped it all into the fermenter once at ferment temp)
This issue is driving me crazy cos I only have room for one batch at a time in the fermenting fridge and Im really tired of brewing K+K beers and drinking wine. (done a lot of K+K's)
Im in a small condo so at the moment Im limited to the stovetop and a burner is out of the question.
Any help would be very much appreciated from the gurus of malt and boil
A.
