Diy pid controller

[jcs401]

Would this : https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0087O6S2A/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Work and all I need (minus the probe) in order to make my own controller?? I know I would need a box and cord from Home Depot but would this kit be all the internal (main) parts needed to make my own pid controller??

 

[nealm]

The 25A SSR is marginal. Find something with a 40A SSR.

 

[jcs401]

The 25A SSR is marginal. Find something with a 40A SSR.

This be better???

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1452447465.805324.jpg

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

Make sure it has a manual mode function or its not what you want.Youll need it to control the boil.Aubrins 2352 or mypin TD4 both have manual mode

 

[jcs401]

I am trying to find one on Amazon if at all possible that will work. Anyone?

 

[audiophool]

The vendor in your first post (Brainytrade) sells the same Mypin TD4 PID with a 40 AMP SSR on Amazon for about the same price or a little lower than the package you linked to with the 25 AMP PID.

The TD4 has a manual mode.

 

[okiedog]

I've been looking at Mypin TD4 also, but I'm not sure how to set it up. Is it possible to control step mashes with a Mypin temp. controller?.

 

[TallDan]

The 25A SSR is marginal. Find something with a 40A SSR.

How would you know that 25A is marginal when the OP didn't state what load would be on the SSR?

 

[nealm]

I guessed that he was going to heat more than tea water.
For most of our (home brewers) applications a 25A is being run at near the top of its capacity which could shorten its life.
Guilty as charged of an assumption.

How would you know that 25A is marginal when the OP didn't state what load would be on the SSR?

 

[TallDan]

I guessed that he was going to heat more than tea water.
For most of our (home brewers) applications a 25A is being run at near the top of its capacity which could shorten its life.
Guilty as charged of an assumption.

A 120v 2000w element for RIMS would be 16.7a, or 67% of rated capacity.
A 120v 1500w element for RIMS would be 12.5a or 50% of rated capacity.

Both of these are common applications with plenty of headroom at 25A.

 

[augiedoggy]

Would this : https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0087O6S2A/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Work and all I need (minus the probe) in order to make my own controller?? I know I would need a box and cord from Home Depot but would this kit be all the internal (main) parts needed to make my own pid controller??

yup it will work fine, best option IMHO actually.... and 25a is plenty if your still going with 120v like mentioned in your other threads?

 

[TallDan]

Back to the OP's question...

We can't possibly answer the question without more information here. Not only can we not tell if the components listed are appropriate, but we also cannot tell if other components will be needed. Most people who build a controller use some switches, LEDs and outlets as well.

 

[augiedoggy]

Make sure it has a manual mode function or its not what you want.Youll need it to control the boil.Aubrins 2352 or mypin TD4 both have manual mode

The gray faced pid in the amazon ad is the TD4 it also states its the correct td4-snr for driving the ssr with manual or fuzzy -pid logic

 

[augiedoggy]

Back to the OP's question...

We can't possibly answer the question without more information here. Not only can we not tell if the components listed are appropriate, but we also cannot tell if other components will be needed. Most people who build a controller use some switches, LEDs and outlets as well.

Yeah but that doesnt really matter here right?... All he asked is will he be able to use the stuff in the link for a control panel to control a boil.... The answer is yes 25a is rated for 6000w or less elements and the pid in the ad does have manual mode... if he chooses to add lights,switches or outlets or wire direct is unrelated as far as I see and will just take this thread off into an off topic discussion.

 

[augiedoggy]

I've been looking at Mypin TD4 also, but I'm not sure how to set it up. Is it possible to control step mashes with a Mypin temp. controller?.

you have to step it manually just like you would with the equvilent auberins pid that was mentioned... however switching to and controlling the manual boil level is easier with the td4 from what I have read. I use td4s and they work very well for me. (im also using the same 25a ssr with my 4500w element for almost 3 years now with no problems so.)
I have links to were I found mine in my build thread below which may or may not still work...

***Tip for searching for the td4 on ebay or amazon you have to search for "td4 temperature controller" and NOT mypin for some odd reason...

newegg sells them too but they sell them under the apgtek brand name even though they still clearly say "Mypin" all over them...

 

[TallDan]

Yeah but that doesnt really matter here right?... All he asked is will he be able to use the stuff in the link for a control panel to control a boil.... The answer is yes 25a is rated for 6000w or less elements and the pid in the ad does have manual mode... if he chooses to add lights,switches or outlets or wire direct is unrelated as far as I see...

Doesn't say anywhere that he's controlling a boil, could be a HERMS, RIMS, or god knows what else, which is my point.

6000w at 240v is under 25a, but as mentioned by someone else, it's cutting it close, a larger relay (for minimal cost increase) would be a better fit. Those heat sinks are also noted as being undersized, if the relay will be that close to capacity, a larger one would be preferable, or maybe he'd need a fan to cool it.

 

[augiedoggy]

Doesn't say anywhere that he's controlling a boil, could be a HERMS, RIMS, or god knows what else, which is my point.

6000w at 240v is under 25a, but as mentioned by someone else, it's cutting it close, a larger relay (for minimal cost increase) would be a better fit. Those heat sinks are also noted as being undersized, if the relay will be that close to capacity, a larger one would be preferable, or maybe he'd need a fan to cool it.

Ok fair enough... I use those heat sinks and that pid/ssr combination but I do use a fan. There are a lot of guys that just screw the ssr direct to a metal enclosure with no heatsink with success though I dont recomment it. There has been no evidence that i can find that a 40a ssr runs any cooler than a 25a ssr, especially with the cheap knock off fake foteks like the one in the ad (they are clones and there are threads as well as other websites about this,)


He is looking to control one 120v element according to all his other threads Which most likely you havent seen so..

 

[augiedoggy]

I would consider this better quality Magar brand ssr for $11 with the thermal paste and heat sink... its also 40a to put everyone at ease..


Its also the exact same brand (and model) SSR that Aubrins has relabeled as their own and sells for much more...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mager-40A-S...963267?hash=item5b1e280583:g:MWoAAOSwo0JWJzxJ

heres the cheaper 25a version for $9 with the same accessories

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mager-Solid...963282?hash=item5b1e280592:g:fqIAAOSw9mFWJzu~

 

[okiedog]

you have to step it manually just like you would with the equvilent auberins pid that was mentioned... however switching to and controlling the manual boil level is easier with the td4 from what I have read. I use td4s and they work very well for me. (im also using the same 25a ssr with my 4500w element for almost 3 years now with no problems so.)
I have links to were I found mine in my build thread below which may or may not still work...

***Tip for searching for the td4 on ebay or amazon you have to search for "td4 temperature controller" and NOT mypin for some odd reason...

newegg sells them too but they sell them under the apgtek brand name even though they still clearly say "Mypin" all over them...

This may be what I've been looking for: http://www.williamsbrewing.com/KEG-KING-DUAL-PLUG-CONTROL-P4027.aspx
It's supposed to be able to sequentially step through different temp settings for step mashing or fermentation profiles.

 

[augiedoggy]

This may be what I've been looking for: http://www.williamsbrewing.com/KEG-KING-DUAL-PLUG-CONTROL-P4027.aspx
It's supposed to be able to sequentially step through different temp settings for step mashing or fermentation profiles.

thats not a pid... its just a stc1000 variant.
They have mechanical relays making them good and controlling a fridge and heater for a fermentation chamber but not at all ideal for controlling percise temps with a heating element for a rims or kettle...

You can buy an STC1000 and flash it with alphaomegas firmawre like I did to mine which allows for the same customizable fermantation profiles and ramping... the stc1000 is about $12 shipped or you can buy the stc 1000+ units alrteady flashed for about $30... I have like 8 or these and I use 4 myself to conrol the heating and cooling on my conicals. go to the "stc1000+" thread in the DIY section for more info. I wouldnt doubt if these kegking units use alphaomegas firmware he wrote and provided for free to the home brewing community.

 

[okiedog]

Thanks, augiedoggy! actually, I knew it wasn't a PID, but thought it might work for mash control. I've never used a PID, but from what you and others have stated, they are ideal for mash temps. Thanks for the scoop on STC1000+. I will certainly take a look at those.

 

[jcs401]

QUESTION:
I recently went from a 1500 watt to a 2000 watt element and don't see much of a change in time to get to mash temp? My question is, I am using a pid controller which goes through a relay, then I plug my element into the 20amp outlet on my pid controller(the element has a 20amp male plug). The pid controller cord is just a normal 3 prong I think 15amp make plug which goes into your standard gfci outlet. If this is my setup, am I NOT getting the max wattage out of my element??

 

[SHvanBommel]

I have TD4 SNR's in my setup and can control step mashes. i'm just responding to a question from earlier.

 

[okiedog]

How, exactly, do you control step mashes with your TD4 SNRs? I'm not sure I understand the process.

 

[SHvanBommel]

Well, it all depends on how fast your able to ramp your temps. But, the quick and dirty is to set your temp, then set a timer, after you figure out your ramp rate, Split the time in half and subtract from your hold time and when your alarm goes off... Change your temp. Using a PID does not automate your brew day.

 

[BeardedBrews]

Thanks, augiedoggy! actually, I knew it wasn't a PID, but thought it might work for mash control. I've never used a PID, but from what you and others have stated, they are ideal for mash temps. Thanks for the scoop on STC1000+. I will certainly take a look at those.

To give some additional clarity, the controllers like you linked are either on or off and are designed to cycle slowly. If you are set to 150, when the pot drops to 149 it kicks on full blast until the pot gets back up to 150, then cuts all the way off until it drops again. Applying 100% heat is not ideal, especially if you are worried about hi and low temperature spots (like in your mash). That said, this approach works just fine in a HLT where the water can circulate freely (if you wanted to use an off the shelf bucket heater).

By switching to a PID you get a controller that can change the amount of power it delivers by switching on and off much more quickly and at different on-off durations. By tuning the pid you can achieve a tighter control, and the element will only put out as much power as it needs. This works much better for high power elements and in applications where you might need a steady manual power level (like boiling).

 

[okiedog]

Thanks. I believe I understand now how PID controllers work to control mash temps. Some PID controllers are listed as auto tuning. What is that?

 

[BeardedBrews]

Thanks. I believe I understand now how PID controllers work to control mash temps. Some PID controllers are listed as auto tuning. What is that?

PID stands for proportional / integral / derivative

The controller uses each value to figure out how much power to apply.

P=Present temperature error (calculates the power output based on how far off your system is right now)

I=Past temperature error (gives you a power boost if your temp has been staying low too long)

D=Future temperature error (cuts back on the power if it thinks your system is going to overshoot)


Each value gets a number based on how your system reacts to turning the element on and off. It is possible to manually figure out what numbers to use, but an auto tuning PID will turn the heat on and off and learn what the right PID values are for you (usually).

 

[jcs401]

PID stands for proportional / integral / derivative

The controller uses each value to figure out how much power to apply.

P=Present temperature error (calculates the power output based on how far off your system is right now)

I=Past temperature error (gives you a power boost if your temp has been staying low too long)

D=Future temperature error (cuts back on the power if it thinks your system is going to overshoot)


Each value gets a number based on how your system reacts to turning the element on and off. It is possible to manually figure out what numbers to use, but an auto tuning PID will turn the heat on and off and learn what the right PID values are for you (usually).

Can you help me set my pid controller. Right now I have Pff I: at 20 and Dff. Should this be different? I'm using a mypin TD4

 

[jcs401]

Sorry not sure why the smily faces p I have off, I I have set to 20 and D is off