DIY....keg?

[Priemus]

Hi everyone,

I have a small problem/question and I figure that someone here probably has the right answers, or has even tried it before.

Where I live in Norway it seems to be impossible for me to get a cornie keg, or some other easy to use/clean/refill keg, and I after just 5 batch's I'm already sick of bottles, plus I recently constructed a small Bar in my living room and I want a tap.

I have a Tank for CO2. its an extra diving tank that I can use to fill a smaller tank that has a very friendly valve fitting, as far as connecting it to a......plastic keg....

Essentially I can get plastic "jerry can" style fermenters here dirt cheap (25 liters), the plastic is maybe 2mm, perhaps 3mm thick. I already use 1 of them as a secondary.

What I wonder is, if I attach said valve to the "keg" how much pressure can one of these "kegs" take before they burst? I assume I require around 30psi to force carb its contents? If thats a insane idea Im not opposed to the idea of a cup of suger and a couple of weeks, and solely using the gas to pump the beer up a few feet to a tap, whats that? 9psi?

Is this a REALLY stupid idea?

I'd love for anyone to point out the pros and cons of this idea, and perhaps give me any tips that wont end up with me mopping up beer.

 

[david_42]

The King Keg is plastic and a very common method of making beer in the UK. I doubt a plastic jerry can would handle 30 psi, though. The jerry cans would probably be able to handle 4-6 psi, but you would have to run some tests yourself. Natural carbonation or the 'set and sit' method at serving temperature might work. If you are willing to stick with styles that fall into the real ale schema, you would be okay. The other alternatives would be 5L kegs (I know at least one company in Germany makes them) or 2-3L soda bottles.

Maybe the manufacturer can give you a better idea.

 

[Priemus]

Im sure it would work, the sit and forget approach, but I dont want to have to employ gravity to pour my beers, looks kinda silly having a big chunk of plastic sitting on the bar.

I looked at the King keg, seems to be made of the same material as my current fermenter/pressure keg suspect, but I guess your right, if noone has actually tried this with the keg im using, and cant really describe very well (maybe ill upload a picture to make things more clear), then yeah, just to pump gas into one full of water and wait till it explodes...

 

[IrregularPulse]

Do they not have beer on tap in your country? Can you get a regular Style keg and just use that?

 

[Priemus]

Yes they do, and ironically I work at a Micro Brewery and have easy access to multiple kegs with this style connector http://p.ping.fm/img/wBFB6JXb/74c11c0107f6acf3.jpg , minus of course the angle grinder

But I have no real way to tap to or from them for home use. I rather need something I can pour directly into after fermenting, then seal under pressure for tapping.

 

[Synovia]

Yes they do, and ironically I work at a Micro Brewery and have easy access to multiple kegs with this style connector http://p.ping.fm/img/wBFB6JXb/74c11c0107f6acf3.jpg , minus of course the angle grinder

But I have no real way to tap to or from them for home use. I rather need something I can pour directly into after fermenting, then seal under pressure for tapping.

Just order some Sanke taps. (They look like sankes).


Commercial Sanke Single Valve Tap. :: Midwest Supplies Homebrewing and Winemaking Supplies


I'm sure theres plenty of other places that sell them too.


might actually be one of these:
http://www.midwestsupplies.com/products/ProdByID.aspx?ProdID=4204

 

[springer]

Yes they do, and ironically I work at a Micro Brewery and have easy access to multiple kegs with this style connector http://p.ping.fm/img/wBFB6JXb/74c11c0107f6acf3.jpg , minus of course the angle grinder

But I have no real way to tap to or from them for home use. I rather need something I can pour directly into after fermenting, then seal under pressure for tapping.

Hey are you stealing BierMunchers design?!



I would just get some of those and use them to dispense the beer . Do they have slim 1/4 kegs thay would be perfect for your application

 

[Priemus]

Then the problem occurs again of it being super expensive to get anything shipped from the States to Norway, or impossible, I didnt see anywhere that they ship here, and there are super taxes on items when they arrive, and knowing Norway I bet if it has anything to do with alcohol they will tax the total value of the product an extra 1000% at customs.

I guess ill just buy one of these cheap plastic kegs and do a real budget mac guyver on it, just mount the threaded valve from the dive tank on it, fill it with water, turn on the gas for a second or 2 (minus a regulator ) and see if water shoots out the pipe above it.

If I can get 6psi in it maybe thats enough. I dont like the thought of cleaning those conventional kegs.

 

[Synovia]

If there are bars in norway, you should be able to find someplace that sells connectors.

 

[maho]

Check out this store in Denmark: Lund Teknik's Webshop

They have Cornelius and all fittings. They also have couplings for other types of kegs, like the one you showed.

Shipping from DK should be OK. Cornelius kegs are much more expensive though than in the US, even used (about $60 for a used one).

 

[shortyjacobs]

Do you have a place you can pressure test your experimental kegs? Go out away from people, hide behind something heavy, (your car?), and pressurize to 50 psi, (to have a safety margin). Then vent, and do it again, and again, to make sure repeated stress doesn't blow it up....

At least it's better than trying to pressurize a full keg in your living room....

In fact! Fill your test keg with water before pressure testing it.....that way it won't explode as huge if it blows....

 

[SeamusMac]

Do you have a place you can pressure test your experimental kegs? Go out away from people, hide behind something heavy, (your car?), and pressurize to 50 psi, (to have a safety margin). Then vent, and do it again, and again, to make sure repeated stress doesn't blow it up....

At least it's better than trying to pressurize a full keg in your living room....

In fact! Fill your test keg with water before pressure testing it.....that way it won't explode as huge if it blows....

I'd also apply some external force to the keg while it's pressurized that might simulate it being bumped against furniture, the curb, another keg, ect.

As an alternative to carbing it at 30 psi, I think you can also carb it over a longer period of time using half the pressure. Set it in the fridge and apply 12 psi (this number is just a guess, research is your friend in this case!) and let it sit for a couple of weeks before reducing the psi to serving pressure. If the keg won't blow at 50 psi after being continually pressured/de-pressurized and beaten with household objects then I would personally consider it safe to say that less than 1/3 of that pressure will not compromise the keg.

Good luck!

 

[bendavanza]

12 psi is a common serving/carbing pressure at temps around 38-42, and waiting 2 weeks works well. I don't know if your plastic things would hold the pressure well or even seal well enough. Since you work in a brewery you should ask them if they will run your kegs through their cleaning/sanitizing process and get a sankey coupler to fit them. You can remove the spear if you want to have direct access to the insides, and replace the spring clip with an easier to remove clip, or just use the sankey tap to fill and serve. There is probably a ball in the sankey tap to make it work one way but it falls out easily when you are cleaning them. Lots of homebrewers in the US use those kinds of kegs, and some use them for fermenters, too.

 

[camiller]

Yes they do, and ironically I work at a Micro Brewery and have easy access to multiple kegs with this style connector http://p.ping.fm/img/wBFB6JXb/74c11c0107f6acf3.jpg , minus of course the angle grinder

But I have no real way to tap to or from them for home use. I rather need something I can pour directly into after fermenting, then seal under pressure for tapping.

Just order some Sanke taps. (They look like sankes).


Commercial Sanke Single Valve Tap. :: Midwest Supplies Homebrewing and Winemaking Supplies


I'm sure theres plenty of other places that sell them too.


might actually be one of these:
European Sanke Tap :: Midwest Supplies Homebrewing and Winemaking Supplies

I know there are a couple guys either around here or the green board that use sankey kegs for dispensing. Perhaps the micro brewery you work at might let you clean your kegs on their cleaning system if you ask nice and share your homebrew with the brewer In fact they would probably let you buy used kegs from them maybe? I think if I where in your shoes I'd investigate the possibility.

Edit: Oh, and you probably heve the Euro sankey (System S) rather than the American sankey (System D), if you go this route make sure to get the right connectors.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

If I had it to do again, I'd not go the way of the Corny and I'd have set myself up with everything Sanke for homebrew.

While it does take "some" additional effort to assure the kegs are cleaned properly it doesn't take much. and Sankes are an industry standard minus a variety of couplers.

Good luck norseman.

 

[geandhei]

malt, humle och jäst för ölbryggning - Humlegårdens Ekolager in Sweden delivers to Norge

 

[wilserbrewer]

Don't bother fooling w/ the plastic kegs if you have the real thing (sankes) available. With a little effort they work great!! Removing and reinstalling the spear is a bit tricky at first but it will become easy with practice. Clean and sanitize as you would any vessel w/ a small opening.

 

[iddqd]

TITTEL

A bit expensive, but at least it's in Norway. Humlegården in Sweden is also pretty good, but I don't know anything about their shipping charges to Norway. You might want to check Danish Maltbazaren, they're prices are pretty good.

 

[Priemus]

FYI:

When I try to pressurize a plastic jerry can, or petrol container it leaks out every spot. Water proof isnt air proof (which should really have been my first thought, I shouldnt try to cheap it out), so didnt even try to blow one up.

In the meantime I found some on a norwegian site

Vin Og Bar

Quite expensive setup 3,500kr for a tank, keg, regulator and tap (550 USD!).

But the Mini kegs might be an acceptable solution while I save up.