DIY Grain Mill. I was excited until....

[MrShake]

It’s not really a sensitive subject and no nerve is touched pertaining to the subject. It’s just that you came to the DIY forum asking if using aluminum rollers was a good idea and worth the effort. Solid reasons why it is not have been put out there, but you choose to listen to the arm chair cheerleaders. You’ll put this thing together and it will crush grain. You’ll come back here pronouncing success and give the notion that this is a good idea. It clearly is not.

Incorrect Statement. Clearly you believe it is not a good idea. However, you have zero experience crushing grain with the harbor freight motorcycle chock rollers right? Clearly, you have nothing but conjecture to base your opinion on. The OP is putting this to the test, actually doing the work instead of posting on forums about why other people are stupid.

Heck, you could use wooden rollers and it would work, but if you plan to be in this hobby for any length of time why would you be so short sighted.

Odly enough, someone on this DIY forum has successfully created a wooden roller mill, and has been quite successful with it if I remember correctly. And why does length of time in the hobby equate only using what you perceive is the proper equipment?

You’ll prove that grain can be crushed with aluminum. We know that. You could make a steak knife out of aluminum for your next project. How about aluminum drill bits? I'll bet you could put a hole in wood with one.

Why would you ask a question and then ignore the answer?

I believe, the OP has acknowledged, over and over, the concerns of the aluminum nay-sayers, but taken the attitude of "I have the supplies, I have the time, I might as well try" No harm in trying anything of this sort.... you never know, he might just LEARN something, or even be successful!

And you’ll still end up with an underlying soft metal. Your odds of finding someone with a lathe to befriend are way better and you’ll end up with a more durable product.

My point is the same as Remmy's..... you seem to be nothing but a naysayer, a negative influence on the OPs ideas. He is out nothing but time and wood at this point if it doesn't work.... if it does, fantastic.

But your insistence that no one try anything new, or anything that YOU believe won't work is ludicrous. I'd ask you, politely, to abandon this thread. You have stated your point ad nauesum and the OP has chosen to give this a try. Your negative comments are no longer necessary or wanted.

 

[AnOldUR]

Clearly, you have nothing but conjecture to base your opinion on.

You’re right. I only have conjecture (based on over 35 years experience in metalworking.)

Your negative comments are no longer necessary or wanted.

I was wondering when we would appoint someone to speak for all of HBT. Now I know that no one on this forum has any interest in hearing my opinion. I apologize and will comment no more.

 

[Brewmoor]

Alright. Enough guys. We all get the point. Some us like aluminum others don't. Some of us have expertise in areas others don't. No reason to get butt hurt over all this. Lets try and stay on topic.

If we have something helpful to say about this project......by all means post. If not lets take this debate over to the thread yuri created for this. We are not helping anybody by bickering.

 

[Mirage]

IMO, when people ask for ideas or suggestions, they are simply trying to gather as much information about a topic as they can and then make their final decision (at least that is what I do). Calling his opinions unwanted is simply unwarranted. That is their opinion and clearly they wouldn't create the mill because of what they know. If the OP doesn't think that he has enough evidence to tell him to not make it, that is great and we will all see what he ends up with and how it performs. It seems like this is getting quite personal when it shouldn't be. After reading the whole thread, I don't think anyone came across as someone who is simply saying it won't work for the sake of saying it. Again, it should be a collection of everyone's opinions and the OP can take those and do as he likes. My .02

 

[mmb]

We can all agree that aluminum is not as "strong" as steel, right? That it will wear down faster that steel, correct?

I'm sure that the aluminum will crush grain. I don't think anyone is disputing that. I also think that the rollers will need to be re-knurled much quicker than steel rollers if used to crush an equal amount of grain.

If you feel comfortable having to replace your rollers after an undetermined amount of time, have at it. If the OP only does a few batches a year, then the rollers might last for a while.

I don't think anyone is really telling the OP to not do it, it's stupid but rather, if you do it these will be the most likely results. *shrug*

 

[Hugh_Jass]

If the OP decides to go forward with this project, I'd be interested in the results over time. The aluminum may not stand up to continuous usage. Maybe take a micrometer reading after each 50-100 pounds of grain is crushed to check for loss of diameter and post the results.

 

[Homercidal]

When looking for material for my own homemade crusher, I asked some of the guys at my shop (machine shop) what to use and ALL of them said aluminum would wear out quickly. Grain is abrasive and will wear the aluminum. Now obviously we have all kinds of material here, and aluminum would be the MUCH easier material to turn and cut and knurl.

They ALL recommended steel rollers. Anodizing would probably improve the aluminum roller, but I don't know if it would completely prevent them from wearing. You can anodize the rollers yourself if you have a battery charger. Google for instructions.

 

[Brewmoor]

You can anodize the rollers yourself if you have a battery charger. Google for instructions.

I hate you!! I just did a search and found out how easy this is to do. Now I just need to find a place to find sulfuric acid. I just don't have time for all these cool projects I want to do. This one though is too cool to pass up.

 

[Homercidal]

I hate you!! I just did a search and found out how easy this is to do. Now I just need to find a place to find sulfuric acid. I just don't have time for all these cool projects I want to do. This one though is too cool to pass up.

Glad I could pass it along!

I've been wanting to try this for a few years, but never had a good reason. Maybe when I get my crusher motorized I'll anodize the frame a cool color.

OT : Molasses can remove rust. I have a website with the info on it.

http://www.homercidal.com/molasses

There should be a link to how to remove rust using a battery charger too. Similar to anodizing, but with washing soda instead of acid.

 

[Bobby_M]

Since when is every idea a good idea? If an idea can't stand up without cheerleaders... nevermind.

PS: Herm, let me know the next time you're up my way and the beer is on me.

 

[Synovia]

This thread reminds me of the day I asked on a woodworking forum what I should buy for a mitre saw. Everyone insisted I buy the $750 Bosch 12" Compound Sliding Miter Saw, saying that I'd regret anything else. I ended up buying an $89 reconditioned hitachi 12" Compound Miter Saw.


Is it as nice of a tool? No. But it cuts through 4x4s like butter.


We know that steel will hold up longer than aluminum, but we don't know that aluminum won't hold up. Sure, it won't work in a commercial setting, but if the difference is 5,000lbs of milled grain vs 100,000lbs before needing to be reknurled, who gives a crap? At the legal limit, 5000lbs is a lifetime of brewing.

Every time someone on these forums tries to do something different, the old guard comes out and insists it can't be done. We've seen it with no chill. We've seen it with no sparge. We've seen it with the corona mills. We've seen it with malt toasting.


The worst that can come out of this is his mill eats itself, and we have a test case.

 

[masonsjax]

I feel so conflicted here. I'm a DIY type, but at the same time, I bought a Barley Crusher because I was too lazy to build my own mill. I think that as my age increases, my desire to do things myself decreases, and my willingness to pay others to do it for me takes over. Personally, I think lazy people tend to do things right the first time, to avoid duplicating work. Despite my own apathy, I encourage everyone to follow through with new ideas. Even if they don't pan out as expected, they could lead to other great ideas, inspire others, or just serve as a good learning experience.

 

[HSM]

You’re right. I only have conjecture (based on over 35 years experience in metalworking.)


I was wondering when we would appoint someone to speak for all of HBT. Now I know that no one on this forum has any interest in hearing my opinion. I apologize and will comment no more.

Crap, now along with the almighty rebby we have mr shake telling everyone to ingnore good advice and try anything with no other knowledge than "you haven't done it yourself".

Usually when I see a Rebby pontificating post I quickly move on to save myself the frustration. Wish I had done so here.

 

[Homercidal]

Well, frankly, I'm curious to see how it turns out. I happen to have ample supply of good steel and that is what I used. Let's see how the aluminum holds up!

 

[crawford]

Good luck on the mill, man. your a little more ambitious than i would be, I bought my own.

 

[BA_from_GA]

WOW, what a pissing contest.

to the OP... i recently built a grain mill with some scrap i had around the shop i work in. (thread here ). I was assured in that thread that the rollers i have wouldn't work, that i needed industrial conveyor rollers.... by someone who hadn't ever seen anything more than the pictures of the rollers i'd posted. He didn't know their intended use, or construction... just knew that i wouldn't be successful.

He was wrong. My grain mill works fine. Took some tinkering, some adjusting, etc, etc, but it works I milled grain and got just over 70% efficiency on my first brew using it. Personally, i value ingenuity... be it my own or someone else's. Life would suck if everyone's creativity was restrained by their critics.

Good luck, let us know how well your grain mill does work, because it will.

 

[MarsColonist]

Now I just need to find a place to find sulfuric acid.

Automotive store for battery refresh kit, at least that is what I used.

 

[Brewmoor]

Automotive store for battery refresh kit, at least that is what I used.

Thank you, I am going to stop by napa tomorrow and see what I can find.

 

[GreenMonti]

You could age-harden the rollers in your oven. 375 for about 8 hours should work.

 

[BenS]

I want to revive this thread. I saw these rollers the other day at harbor freight and the only reason I thought they might not work was because the knurls on them were huge. Heck, the "motorcycle stand" they sell it as could even be modified so that the rollers weren't even taken out of the stand. I think I've just convinced myself to go to harbor freight tomorrow.

To the OP, whats the update?

 

[Reno_Raines]

I love Revvy's comment on the first page about "armchair quarterbacks" and "shooting people's ideas down". This is so true. There are people spouting bull all over the internet in all different kinds of forums. It is amazing to me how so many people can be so wrong about things. As an example, I am working through the immigration process with my wife and it is not easy so I read and post on forums hoping for some answers and get completely incorrect advice from about 20% of the people who respond. It is even worse if you bring it up in conversation with people at the office, or people in the bar, or anywhere else. People with absolutely no experience always want to chime in and sound important or hear themselves talk. Don't get me started with automotive repair, the people who talk the most know the least.

Sorry for the long post, I didn't even read the whole thread just the first page. I have gotten lots of good info from forums, especially this one, you just need to check the source. Good luck with the rollers.

 

[Bobby_M]

Um, nice first post?

 

[dale1038]

Um, nice first post?

No doubt! Awesome!

 

[mmb]

Immigration can be a pain with those mail order brides.

Welcome aboard.

 

[Suicided1954]

haven't milled anything with it. I just slapped it together to see if it wears out. Maybe I'll get to using it soon. I wont be brewing until the 27th so I won't have anything to add until then.

 

[Suicided1954]

I know the rollers aren't even... the stupid screws pulled it out of whack. My original design had gap adjustability... I wasnt going to put the effort into it unless it proves fruitful.

 

[Suicided1954]

i'm gonna make a cardboard and duct tape hopper to go with this fine piece of machinery also

 

[ThreeDogsNE]

There are people spouting bull all over the internet in all different kinds of forums. It is amazing to me how so many people can be so wrong about things. As an example, I am working through the immigration process with my wife and it is not easy so I read and post on forums hoping for some answers and get completely incorrect advice from about 20% of the people who respond. It is even worse if you bring it up in conversation with people at the office, or people in the bar, or anywhere else. People with absolutely no experience always want to chime in and sound important or hear themselves talk. Don't get me started with automotive repair, the people who talk the most know the least.

+1 on that. It is still amazing to me how confidently the ignorant can speak. I hate it when people show up at my office with Internet printouts that they seem to believe just gave them instant expertise.

On the flip side, on behalf of those of us whose idea of fine machining is a bastard cut mill file, kudos on the mill. I hope it works well.

 

[Reno_Raines]

Immigration can be a pain with those mail order brides.

Welcome aboard.

Now I know... should've read the small print. They don't come with a green card.

 

[crawford]

lol sweet. I've worked for a design engineer for a machinery company an we sell our machines all over the world. in the next two weeks i'll use the same software that Catepillar, John Deere and Boeing uses to build an attachment that will form part of a tunnel for an undergroud high speed train for a company in Germany, that will be flown from the US in the worlds largest cargo planes built in russia, to build a tunnel that will link France with even more people that think their surrender monkey wussies.

Anyway, i love the ideas, i respect the guys in their home shops trying to do what people say cant be done. And love the innovation and inventiveness, I can't always get over the cost effectivness of some designs but really, I think it's great when some guys just go for it and say to hell with it I'll try anyway. It's a great part of this hobby. Good luck to ya.

 

[jiggs_casey]

I think the mill idea is a good one. ...and being that I have recently discovered a local Harbor Freight, and being that I have been toying with the idea of building one of my own, I'm really curious to see how this turns out.

Let's assume you only get 10 batches out of it before it becomes worn, you can always spend another $24 and replace your rollers. For me, that's works out to once or twice a year. Or an additional $2.40 to the bottom line of each batch. Five gallon batches already set you back what, $30 in grain and hops? Another $7-$8 for yeast if you're not harvesting. What's another $2.40 a batch? And you built it yourself? That's what's important to me personally. With the exception of buying my grain, I won't be completely satisfied with this hobby until I'm doing everything out of my backyard and my garage...

 

[Bobby_M]

You're actually trying to justify adding $2.40 per batch in "mill wear"? You might as well order crushed malt on a per batch basis at that point. It negates the utility and cost savings of bulk buys and crush as you go. Actually, it would be better to use a cheap corona mill instead.

Just a question to the cheerleaders of the world, when IS it OK to play devil's advocate and state a negative opinion of something?

 

[Catt22]

You're actually trying to justify adding $2.40 per batch in "mill wear"? You might as well order crushed malt on a per batch basis at that point. It negates the utility and cost savings of bulk buys and crush as you go. Actually, it would be better to use a cheap corona mill instead.

Just a question to the cheerleaders of the world, when IS it OK to play devil's advocate and state a negative opinion of something?

What? You don't understand the benefits of building a half ass DIY grain mill while investing more than the price of an off the shelf mill plus time and effort? What's the matter with you?

 

[Suicided1954]

If it was about money I would buy beer...

 

[olllllo]

I'm just reading this thread now and I can say that I don't remember anyone saying that it would NOT work, or at the very least no one said it with any memorable persuasiveness.

Saying that a design has problems or concerns is NOT saying it won't work.

The cheerleader thing... Why does the argument, "You should build it because others said it wouldn't work and there are naysayers here." rise to some sort of unassailable fact, when it is still an opinion? It will work because the design is based on forum spite? Shouldn't the design, I dunno, stand on it's own?

What does the accuracy of other forums have to do with arguments here?

All we have here is our damned opinions, our forum track record of integrity, our previously discussed experiences. We are encouraged to post thoughts for discussion so that the best answers can rise to the top. The OP may decide one way, a future reader may decide another.

One thing I do not see often enough with these DIY trial ballons is a complete post build report AND a report as to the durability 6 months, 1 year, ect down the road. Because that SEEMS to be the chief concern among those offering constructive criticism.


The only ignorant claim I see here is anyone claiming that a person's opinion is ignorant, given that everyone has provided the reasons for why they would or wouldn't build it this way.

 

[olllllo]

I was assured in that thread that the rollers i have wouldn't work, that i needed industrial conveyor rollers.... by someone who hadn't ever seen anything more than the pictures of the rollers i'd posted. He didn't know their intended use, or construction... just knew that i wouldn't be successful.

He was wrong. My grain mill works fine. Took some tinkering, some adjusting, etc, etc, but it works I milled grain and got just over 70% efficiency on my first brew using it. Personally, i value ingenuity... be it my own or someone else's. Life would suck if everyone's creativity was restrained by their critics.

Good luck, let us know how well your grain mill does work, because it will.

Dude, I read that thread. It was one guy. He stated that he thought it wouldn't work and told you why. He assumed the rollers were lighter duty, but the discussions cleared that up a bit. He tipped you off about knurling the rollers too.

You then made the adjustments people suggested about knurling (as best as you could) and you made clearer, the materials you were using.

Where would you be now without any of that "naysayer" help.

Your mill is what? 1 month old? Again, most people had concerns about the durability of the rollers and the quality of the knurl. Those concerns, IMO remain.

 

[COLObrewer]

MAN! This is a soap opera for men, I can hardly wait to see if the mill works and who pats who on the back. Chapter two will be nice, will the mill suffer a catastrophic failure? Will it blow chunks just fine? What will the OP drive it with? I hope there are more "insights" before the 27th, what will I do with my time if I have to wait that long? . . . . brew a beer maybe? With my old hand me down corona type 40 year old feed grinder. I don't know anyone luckier than me, do you?

 

[Suicided1954]

One thing I do not see often enough with these DIY trial ballons is a complete post build report AND a report as to the durability 6 months, 1 year, ect down the road. Because that SEEMS to be the chief concern among those offering constructive criticism.

This is my intention at this point. I had already purchased the stuff and discovered the opinions that it would wear out rapidly and contaminate my mash. No one had gone through the motions to verify this opinion.

I can think of a few ways to test the wear and that's a digital micrometer, weight of the whole thing and the less accurate visual.

I really am not on the sides of the cheerleaders or the naysayers. I am just one of those people with no time to spare but I come up with all these little projects to consume more of my time.

 

[olllllo]

This is my intention at this point. I had already purchased the stuff and discovered the opinions that it would wear out rapidly and contaminate my mash. No one had gone through the motions to verify this opinion.

I can think of a few ways to test the wear and that's a digital micrometer, weight of the whole thing and the less accurate visual.

I really am not on the sides of the cheerleaders or the naysayers. I am just one of those people with no time to spare but I come up with all these little projects to consume more of my time.

Yes. I should have bracketed my comments. I agree with what you just stated. As you can see, though, there is a history about this kind of stuff.

 

[Laughing_Gnome_Invisible]

One thing I do not see often enough with these DIY trial ballons is a complete post build report AND a report as to the durability 6 months, 1 year, ect down the road. Because that SEEMS to be the chief concern among those offering constructive criticism.

I have to agree 100% with that concern. A difficult thing to mod, but it would be cool if such threads that do not conclude with good data one year down the line from the person conducting the experiment could be flagged, closed or stapled to a fast moving train with a mod warning or any other such tool. There is nothing worse than a 2 or 3 year old experiment becoming a zombie thread with no reliable data to kill the aforementioned zombie.